336: Allergies, Sensitivities & Choice: Why Hidden Consumers Matter in Event F&B

Tracy Stuckrath [00:00:06]: Hey, everybody, and welcome to another episode of Eating at a Meeting. Here we go. And I am so excited to bring back to the show Amy Graves. This woman right here to the left of me, I believe that is. We're going to talk about allergies, sensitivities and choice and why the hidden consumers matter in event food and beverage. You are on the show. Welcome. Hello, my friend. Tracy Stuckrath [00:00:33]: I am so excited to have you. So we spoke 15 and a half months ago. I did the little math on it about you writing this book, the Hidden Consumer, and now it is out and mine is en route from Amazon to get here. So I want to. I can't wait to hear what you've learned. So writing this book, and I know that's the name of your company as well, but the Hidden Consumer is finally here. So what's the biggest lesson that you learned while writing the book that you didn't expect? Amy Graves [00:01:03]: I. I didn't expect the amount of the American population that struggles with food for whatever reason. It's not even just food sensitivity. Sometimes it's ethical principles. But it's like 60. Almost 60% of the country struggles with food. Tracy Stuckrath [00:01:19]: 60. Amy Graves [00:01:20]: 60, right. And that's that. And that's because you have to factor in there's a huge portion of Americans that have allergies that are not recognized by the federal government. So they're not part of the state. Tracy Stuckrath [00:01:34]: Right. Amy Graves [00:01:34]: And that's where the biggest problem comes in. Tracy Stuckrath [00:01:36]: Which would be yours, which is corn and, and then, you know, garlic and a variety of other things and. Amy Graves [00:01:45]: Yeah. Tracy Stuckrath [00:01:45]: Tomatoes. Tomatoes, yeah. Night change, Night stage. Night stage is huge. And an alpha gal, which is. Yes. Which is growing dramatically. I want to say hi to Nancy Sutter Burns, who's on Instagram over here. Tracy Stuckrath [00:02:02]: I can't pull her in because it's over there. But yeah, if you have any questions for Amy, let us know. But that's amazing. I mean, because I, and I've always talked about, you know, like, here's food allergies, here's medical conditions like celiac disease and diabetes, and then religious based practices, and then ethical or choices, the vegan, vegetarian, etc. So I always estimated it while putting the numbers together. Like I did in my math was like about 45. But you're saying 60%. Amy Graves [00:02:34]: It's. Yeah. The hidden consumer that I identified fall into five different categories. Okay. So if you take in health concerns that aren't just like celiacs and ibs, you're also dealing with people who have like, chronic inflammation. You're talking about people who have kidney failure. We're talking about people on. There's a wide spectrum of health issues that people have to be really conscious about what they're eating. Amy Graves [00:02:59]: And unfortunately, at the end of the day, you can't trust what you buy in a grocery store, which is a huge thing throughout my book because you really just can't buy food safely anymore. Not in America, unfortunately. Right, yeah. Tracy Stuckrath [00:03:12]: Well, and Lynn, my other friend Lynn is here and she says hello. She's in Arizona, Nancy's in New Jersey. But well, in going back to the corn thing real quick and Colleen from Zigo Food said to me one day is like the little plastic thing at the bottom of the fruits and vegetables and the body. Yeah. Is corn. Amy Graves [00:03:33]: It is, yeah. Yeah. So you know, you wouldn't know that. And you know, I'm, I'm this, I'm a parts per billion sensitive. So like, I don't like the first line of my book is I can't buy food in a grocery store because even the meat, even if everything is done organically, which USD organic is not a high standard, you're still getting corn because the, if the animal eats corn, that corn gets into your food. And now I'm going to get sick if I eat anything that's. So the packaging and how the animal is raised is going to make me sick. Tracy Stuckrath [00:04:08]: Wow. Well, and Candace, who's got Alpha gal from 2 Alpha Gals, you know, she gets sick from eating vegetables. That cow manure was used on the. To grow those vegetables. Yes. Alpha Gal is so strong. Yeah. Amy Graves [00:04:27]: Yeah. And it's only because they're eating the cow that was raised on corn. So like in my case, I can eat the vegetables where the cows manure. But the cow was raised on a ranch, so they're eating whatever. They're just out grazing and that's all they do all day. And there's no. And thankfully in Southern California we don't have cornfields. I'm safe. Amy Graves [00:04:50]: But yeah, because I, when I lived in Minnesota, I had issues with the same thing. I had friends who were farmers, they would bring in their harvest and I couldn't eat it because they, you. They feed their cows and their chickens corn. So. Yeah, that does make sense. It's been a while. My goodness. Because I've had to think about that. Tracy Stuckrath [00:05:12]: Right. Amy Graves [00:05:12]: Yeah. Well. Tracy Stuckrath [00:05:13]: And I, I will put up the link to that. Your, our pre. Your previous interview from 15 months ago so people can really delve into and learn more about what that is. But so from, from writing this, I mean the 60. What were some other things that you. That broadened, you know, the conversation of what that hidden consumer is. And, and one other hidden consumer thing that I say too, when you're thinking about eating or when I put it under dietary needs, I have a fifth one, which is disability. Physical disabilities. Tracy Stuckrath [00:05:48]: Right. Amy Graves [00:05:49]: It's in my book. Yes. Tracy Stuckrath [00:05:52]: Even at dinner last night, my friend was tell. My friend dawn was telling me that her, her son or her husband or whatever is paraplegic. And they're trying to get in historic buildings in my town. And they're like, well, we're grandfathered in, so we don't have to worry about that. And so, so she's like, you're willing to forego these two or three people coming in to eat in your building or visit your space because, oh, we're grandfathered in. Amy Graves [00:06:17]: But it's not two or three people. Tracy Stuckrath [00:06:20]: Right. Amy Graves [00:06:20]: And it goes back. So before we went live, you made a comment about, you know, just because you're not offering it doesn't mean people don't want it. Right. Just because you're not accessible doesn't mean there aren't people who want to be there. I'm the chapter president for my national association of Women Business Owners in my area. And as the president, I walk in and I will go through every, every building that we are considering to do an event at. But I go through with my wheelchair. I can't get the front door open by sitting in my wheelchair. Amy Graves [00:06:55]: You're immediately off the list and I'll cancel the appointment right then and there. Tracy Stuckrath [00:06:59]: Wow. Amy Graves [00:06:59]: Like, because there's no point. I am not going to sit around and wait for someone to open the door for me that, that just nobody wants to be so disrespected like that. I'm an adult woman. I run my own business. Treat me like an adult, not a child who's a toddler waiting to be helped and handed everything. Like, that's not the point. Yeah. And there are organizations in the area that refuse to work with my chapter until I am no longer president. Tracy Stuckrath [00:07:28]: Really? Amy Graves [00:07:29]: Because they don't want to make the accommodations for me to get into their buildings or to be able to function inside their buildings. Oh. Tracy Stuckrath [00:07:38]: So that's my. Oh my gosh. Wow. Amy Graves [00:07:42]: And they're a non profit. So I'm like, you're. What you're literally saying is you're only a non profit to people who are able bodied. Tracy Stuckrath [00:07:54]: Oh my God. That just blows my mind. Amy Graves [00:07:56]: Wow. The things I have experienced. Yeah. It's crazy. Like, I literally sent me an email, one of the companies sent me an email. So are you still president? I'm like, yep. Okay, well, we'll check back in next year. Like, it's a good. Tracy Stuckrath [00:08:14]: Do they think that just because you're not president, you're still not going to come to the events? Amy Graves [00:08:19]: Well, they think it doesn't matter. Tracy Stuckrath [00:08:22]: Right. Amy Graves [00:08:23]: They have to make sure they can accommodate the people who are in charge and running, but they don't actually care about the people who would attend. That says a lot. Tracy Stuckrath [00:08:31]: That does say a lot. Like, offline. Tell me who that is. So I don't give them any money. Right. Amy Graves [00:08:37]: I mean, it's not a national organization. It's something very local. So. Tracy Stuckrath [00:08:42]: Okay. Amy Graves [00:08:43]: And it's north of me, so I'm like, this just. It blows your mind. But yeah, people with disabilities are a huge part of. And it's one of my. I. And it's interesting because in the book I, you know, I walk through the five groups of who is the hidden consumer, and it's like, I know I've got my disability group here, but they're not the same as your health group. Like, there are two. There's two different reasons here of why you have to be concerned about who can actually access your product. Amy Graves [00:09:07]: So. Tracy Stuckrath [00:09:08]: Okay. And did I cut you off before I. Before you told me who your five different categories of. Of hidden. Amy Graves [00:09:15]: You're going to actually put me on the spot, aren't you? I am. I have to remember all of my five categories. So you have your people who have government recognized allergies. Right. Okay. Soy, peanut, you know, those are your recognized government allergies. Then you have people like me who have allergies that are not recognized by the government. And more often than not, it takes a long time to get diagnosed. Amy Graves [00:09:38]: But because it's not a recognized allergen, it means nobody has to accommodate you. Tracy Stuckrath [00:09:45]: Seriously? Amy Graves [00:09:46]: Seriously. Tracy Stuckrath [00:09:47]: Even. Even. Amy Graves [00:09:48]: Even. Tracy Stuckrath [00:09:48]: Even though this. The. The Americans with Disabilities act says that if it impedes. Amy Graves [00:09:55]: Really, it does not mean what. Yeah, you don't. The ADA is such. It doesn't really do anything to really guarantee that. Yeah. Tracy Stuckrath [00:10:04]: It's the bottom of the minimum. Amy Graves [00:10:06]: It's the bottom of the bottom. Yeah, yeah. You have people with health issues, celiacs, things of that. You've got your people with disabilities, and then you have people who have health concerns. So this goes beyond like heart attacks, diabetes. We're looking at things like that. And I. There's also maybe it was six groups because I know I have ethical people who have ethical concerns. Tracy Stuckrath [00:10:29]: Okay. Amy Graves [00:10:29]: But the interesting thing is in the book I really had to take apart what a vegan versus vegetarian and then you have whole foods versus plant based because you've got. With animal rights and two people and then the whole foods and plant based aren't in it because of the animals, but they're still almost that lifestyle and understanding what that difference was. So. Tracy Stuckrath [00:10:50]: Right. And. And the ethical also comes down to the environment. Environment. Yeah. Amy Graves [00:10:56]: Global warming. Tracy Stuckrath [00:10:57]: Yeah. All of. Amy Graves [00:11:00]: PLAS is like I wrote a little bit on PLAS and did some research on it that you know, PLAs are not the environmentally friendly plastic that we think they are because it requires. Okay. As Americans, we would have to separate PLA plastic out of our recycle bin into a separate recycle bin. And then PLAS would have to go to a separate facility where there's only 4,000 of across the world to recycle an actual plastic based on vegetables and actual organic matter. So it. Right. It doesn't do any us any good. Tracy Stuckrath [00:11:36]: Well, in, in chat, chatting with my friend Abby yesterday was that yesterday she was, she did an event in Southern California and whatever, I don't remember what county or it was, but they had put in a mandate that all plastic wares had to be marine safe. Amy Graves [00:11:55]: Right. Tracy Stuckrath [00:11:55]: And they were looking at cups and there is not a single cup that meets those demands. And so. And then she read down at the very, very bottom and look, there are some exceptions until these items are available. Right. And so like how do you know that? And like what are you supposed to do if you're trying to do the right thing? And, and then again, who's going to come and check all your items? Amy Graves [00:12:19]: Right, right. Yeah, yeah. Well. And then it's like, it's like for me, like I'm allergic to plas because plas are made from corn. So like. But it's the same thing. It's like, I don't. When people are looking for like these safe marine and safe things, plastics are just not going to be safe no matter what we do. Amy Graves [00:12:38]: At the end of the day, the smallest structure is still a plastic that isn't going to break down. And it all comes down to that very smallest molecule. And that's the problem. And we can't fix that. There's been no solution to fixing that as of today. Tracy Stuckrath [00:12:53]: Wow. Amy Graves [00:12:53]: We were. So it's going to continue to kill the environment. We just really have to reduce how much plastic we're using. Right, yeah. Tracy Stuckrath [00:13:01]: Which is hard everywhere. Yeah, exactly. Amy Graves [00:13:05]: Yeah. And. Tracy Stuckrath [00:13:06]: And then if you look, go back and listen and I will find the link if you go back and listen to the original episode of me interviewing Amy on here. Like she buys all of her stuff directly from farmers and uses glass containers and things like that to get her food. So it's really interesting to dig deep into that. All right, let's get dive into the book some more. And going back to the very, very front of it though, is that our friend Kyle Dine, he wrote the four your forward of the book and in it it says the book is really about listening. What are the top businesses and event planners or what? What are the top things that businesses and event planners, you know, need to listen when they're talking to hidden consumers? They're participants in their events or their, their guests in hotels or convention centers. Amy Graves [00:13:54]: It really comes down to stop assuming. Tracy Stuckrath [00:13:56]: Okay? Amy Graves [00:13:57]: I think there are so many event planners and events that I've gone to where they just assume they can accommodate me. And how dare I tell them that I can't be accommodated? Hang on, I have a cat that's going crazy. So that's the main thing. Just like I did an event with a major bank in San Diego last week and they did the right thing. Like they had it listed out. There was a, it was a portion of their form to sign up for the event was, do you have food sensitivities? What can we do? You know, what can you eat? How can we help you? And then here's an email to follow up in case you don't hear from us. Right, great. They did all that, right? They never did follow up with me because I literally put in, you cannot accommodate me. Amy Graves [00:14:44]: But while I'm at the event, this, they have servers walking around. There was no actual sit down meal. It was just, you're being served from the platters. And I'm like, no, I, I said that you can't accommodate me. You know, there's nothing you can feed me. Oh, we've got vegetarian in the back. No, vegetarian's worse. And they're like, oh, well, I'm sure there's something we can do. Amy Graves [00:15:06]: I'll have someone talk to you. Like, did you not listen? Oh, no, I froze. Okay. I'm like, oh, no, you like. And that's the whole problem. Like you, you' not listening what I have to say. If I say you can't accommodate me, I don't want to give you my story. You have a job, you're doing things. Amy Graves [00:15:24]: Just say, okay, great. If you change your mind, this is the person you can talk to if you want to find out for sure. Great. I, I'M not going to because I know, right? Yeah, I wrote the book on it. Right? That is my fun topic. That's usually my rebuttal. I wrote the book on it. You might want to read this. Tracy Stuckrath [00:15:42]: Well, in, in back in May, Food Allergy awareness Month, Amanda said, psychologist, she's like, we have to accept that, we have to accept that answer to be willing to accept that answer and be okay with it. And instead of saying, okay, well, no, I really want to feed you, saying okay, just exactly like they said, well, if you change your mind or, you know, we can, you know, let us know how we can help you. Right? Because if I can't, you know, if you can't find what you need, where we are, come back to me and let's figure it out. Amy Graves [00:16:11]: Right? Yeah, absolutely. It's, and it's funny because again, it was a, I used that example in my book because I'm like, I, like when I first got diagnosed and I, I was going to farmers markets and all these home bakers would be like, oh, we wouldn't put that crap. This is going to be safe for you. I'm like, where's your ingredients? And then I would go, this has corn, this has corn, this has corn. This is not what you think it is. How are you selling this as clean? And clean is a, a random term. There's no legal requirement about what it means, but he can use it to describe their product. So it, you know, be really, you gotta be really skeptical when people start using those kinds of terminology. Amy Graves [00:16:50]: But. Right. Again, I'm digressing. Tracy Stuckrath [00:16:53]: Well, and it's, it's funny, I was dog sitting last week. I think it was because it's my part time job and I was gonna go, she had chopped pre chopped garlic, you know, in the jar that you can buy, right? And we have some here at home too. But I looked at it and the, I don't know what made me look at the ingredient list, but xanthan gum was in it. And I'm like, why do you have xanthan gum in chopped garlic? Right? And I came home and looked at ours and ours doesn't have that. So I'm like, I immediately put it back in her fridge. I'm like, I'm not going to use it just because of the xanthan gum. And I'm like, I don't understand the need. Right. Amy Graves [00:17:32]: It's a preservative. So yeah, my guess, if I looked at the rest of the ingredients is, my guess is it isn't an actual garlic like, it's not going to be a natural ingredient. That's why the xanthan gum had to be added. That's typically what I find. So. Tracy Stuckrath [00:17:49]: And how do we. Oh, dissertain that or ask whatever the word is. And my big thing, too is I actually asked a person in, a friend of mine who works in sales and hotels and in Pennsylvania, and because they've got putting, they're supposed to be putting unpackaged food should be labeled with the top line allergens. And I was asking her, you know, do you do that? And I think she said, the chef came back and said, well, we'll tell the planner if they ask us. Right? And. But you're not going to tell the person who's putting it in their body, right? Amy Graves [00:18:26]: Yeah. Tracy Stuckrath [00:18:27]: Right. Yeah. So you've got so many people in between, and the person who's planning the event is the one picking the food. Right. And a lot of people in between them. Amy Graves [00:18:38]: Yeah. And I would say because of my own experience, how I, I started to look at this over the last decade is we don't know every single thing that people are allergic to. There's just no way. Right. And this is where transparency has to come into play. When I did my, my launch event on September 3rd for the book, I made sure we had placards out with the name. Not only the name of what was being served, but every single ingredient. Like, no. Amy Graves [00:19:07]: And we had. I had people show up for my event that had an allergy I would never have expected, but they were able to find two things to eat because I labeled what was actually used to make that product. And then they took home the recipes because we made sure they had the recipes to take home with them. That's nice. Share the love. It was things they hadn't had for a while and didn't realize they could make it. So that's why my next book might be a recipe book. Tracy Stuckrath [00:19:31]: Why not? Right? Because you have to figure out how to do it. And, and it's looking at the labels. And this is not a joke. Leanne Mandelbaum posted that today. It's not a joke. Right. This is a reality for people. It's not something that we can just skirt off and not deal with. Tracy Stuckrath [00:19:50]: Right. It is the reality for 60,000 people. Okay. And on that note, right, you know, you've said that the hidden consumers aren't a niche anymore, and at 60,000 people, that makes them not a niche. Right. So how big, I mean, is this market? I mean, and what happens when companies overlook it I'm like, do you have any research on what has happened with people not doing it? Amy Graves [00:20:17]: We're seeing it right now. Let's look at the wine industry. Okay, wine industry is failing. Why are they failing? Because when you are diagnosed with any level of allergen, your doctor will almost always tell you, stop drinking alcohol. We don't know exactly what's in it. It's highly likely it's going to make you worse. Stop drinking it. Well, the wine industry is refusing to tell people what goes into their wine. Amy Graves [00:20:45]: And like in California, the wine lobby is pushing harder to let wine makers hide more of the ingredients so they can say something's a hundred percent varietal and it not actually be like, it's like up to 10% of it could actually be grapes of another varietal from another area, could be even from another country. You just don't know. And when you start mixing varietals and when you start blending things even at a little bit, you're going to start introducing other aspects that are going to make people sick. But people are just going to go drinking and they're not going to understand. So there's a, there's not a lot of transparency in the wine industry. And all you hear about every day, I hear because I like to drink wine. Like I've had to be cognizant of what I drink. My questions I ask, I have to know exactly what's going on. Amy Graves [00:21:38]: And all they do is complain that they're losing money. Every year they're losing more and more money. It's because nobody wants to drink. Or it's the millennials, they just don't know how to enjoy wine. I'm like, no, no, no, no. You don't a know how to reach people. You're so stuck in this old fashioned way of advertising and making your product that you're not being transparent. And with the amount of people now that have some kind of food related sensitivity, if you can't get straight answers out of somebody, you're not going to buy it. Amy Graves [00:22:11]: And more often than not, you will avoid an entire industry just because you don't want to chance to risk your health. So that's part of it. And the other side of it is the marketing. There's no truth in our marketing. I don't care what there's supposed to be truth. And you're supposed to do this and that. No, there isn't. There is a cosmetic company that uses the word clean on their products. Amy Graves [00:22:34]: One product has six pages of ingredients. How is that clean. What is your definition of clean? That you think six pages of ingredients, none of them natural, Is it? It's, it's. Right, yeah. Anyway, it's building trust for your brand. Like, yeah. Tracy Stuckrath [00:22:56]: I mean, clean to me in my thought process is like nine ingredients or less. Preferably five ingredients or less. Right. If you're buying a packaged food. Right. And, you know, and it cracks me up when I look at some brands and every single ingredient has the word organic in front of it. Right. I mean, so, like, yeah, how do I, how. Tracy Stuckrath [00:23:19]: Where do I find the actual ingredient versus the word organic? Amy Graves [00:23:22]: Organic. And here's what's interesting. If it's a US Product, it has to be USDA certified to use organic. However, not all of them are. So you have to do your due diligence and make sure it has the USDA stamp on it. That's USDA organic stamp. I'm like, it's. And with the USDA being cut, no one's going to double check this information anymore. Amy Graves [00:23:49]: So you literally can put whatever you want on a package, which it's only going to hurt the food industry more. Tracy Stuckrath [00:23:55]: Right? Amy Graves [00:23:55]: Because unless you're deliberately trying to do the right thing, you're. You're going to get lost in the fold because you're not marketing yourself in a way that's going to make people find you. Tracy Stuckrath [00:24:07]: So, and what is that? I mean, how do you, how do these, these companies jump above that? You know that all that messaging that's across the board on the tv, on the buses and everything about the food that they're eating or where they're going, I mean, how do you, how does that company, that property, you know, take that step above? Amy Graves [00:24:30]: First, they hire me and me to. Tracy Stuckrath [00:24:33]: Go through their menus. Amy Graves [00:24:34]: Exactly. Hire me and my team of people. There's a couple of key things. And when people have, like, I've met with a few companies this week who you're not ready to take on a marketer. But I will always give people the same simple steps to get started. And if they work for you, call me, because you'll be making money. So the first thing is, what are your definitions? Are you using the word clean? Are you using organic? But you're like, here in California, California Certified Organic surpasses USD organic in standards. So when I go to my farmer's markets, I'm only shopping at California Certified Organic, which there's only 15 farmers markets in Southern California that hit that criteria because it's so hard to meet and it's expensive. Amy Graves [00:25:24]: I mean, if you're going to put the money right. The other thing I talk about is why do you think your product is a far and above. And I have them tell me what it is they do differently. I'm like, okay, that, flip it, put that on social media. That's your story that you start with. I tell my clients that if I'm working with someone, it's because they have a product. Product with a purpose. Created your product for a reason. Amy Graves [00:25:47]: Why isn't that story out on social media at least once a month? Get it out there. It's got to be in rotation. And then the other thing is the clients I work with, they're all focused on their ingredients. They're. They put time and effort and attention into every single ingredient picked. So a, those ingredients had better be on your homepage and it better be like a synopsis of. This is why we did this. This is what we did. Amy Graves [00:26:11]: We were very specific. We looked at first specific things when we were picking our ingredients. I mean, so if you look up a company called Rebel Aid, I was just talking to them last week, they created their product for a specific reason. But they didn't only pick their ingredients. They literally searched for someone who could make the product in an ethical way that they could be proud to put have as part of their company. So it comes down to how are they producing their product too? There was nothing like any of that was on their website. It's not on their social media. Those are the simple things to start. Tracy Stuckrath [00:26:47]: But I mean, it brings me back though to Aaron McKenna who has Aaron McKenna Bakeries and it used to be baby cakes in New York City. I tried to go there the other day, but apparently it's closed down. But she stopped saying, hey, I'm a vegan bakery, I'm a gluten free bakery. And because it's a bad rap, I mean, is it time to flip that switch? I mean, are people, but even there, there, you know, marketers, that saying, don't put the word vegan on your buffet label because people will walk around it and not eat it. Amy Graves [00:27:19]: But who this goes back to who's. I mean, I'm gonna avoid it because vegan means corn. I have to avoid it. That's my allergen right there. Like if you were vegan or vegetarian, whole food. Well, not whole food based, but if you're vegan or vegetarian, it is a perfect privilege to be able to eat like that. I mean, the amount of allergens that are included in those foods is mindboggling. Oh, yeah. Amy Graves [00:27:47]: So you have to. Again, I don't think a majority of Americans are going to bypass it anymore because we are all trying to eat healthier. We're. We're struggling with the food that it. I think a decade ago. Absolutely. But we have got to get to this is the point is that of the whole book, we have hit a level where every single person I've talked to has a food story. In a decade, nobody has said, when I've told them my story, they go, oh, you know, I have this friend, I have this cousin, I have this family member. Amy Graves [00:28:25]: My life is like this. Or everybody has a food story. Everybody is. When they go out to eat, they're being more careful than normal. Like what we would consider normal, because the new normal is we can't trust the food we're eating. And a majority of that. Tracy Stuckrath [00:28:42]: And my conversation last week was with Chris Reed, who's the executive director of Slow Food usa, and she was. And she was saying she doesn't have any processed food in her house. Amy Graves [00:28:54]: And. Tracy Stuckrath [00:28:55]: But it's going back to using whole foods and understanding truly what that is. And that's. I mean, I know Slow Food was created to combat fast food coming into Italy in the first place, but it really is knowing where your food comes from and buying it direct from farmers. But not everybody has that luxury or that ability to do that and the money to do that. Amy Graves [00:29:21]: Right. And that's something I tackle a little bit. I mean, my book is only 140 pages, so I'm really clear and consistent on every topic I'm talking about on this. But that's a huge issue that we have in this country, too. The people who depend the most on the cheapest food are the people who can't afford the medical care for the health issues they're developing. They're eating the cheapest food, or they're in a food desert where there literally is nothing around them that's a whole food. Our entire food system is based on. If you want to stay healthy and eat healthy, you have to have the bank account to back it up. Amy Graves [00:29:56]: And that's not right. But if you look, United States and Israel both voted in the United nations saying that food is not a basic human right. And if we look at how the food in this country is set up, how we can't trust our grocery stores, that's exactly. That is a philosophy they've believed in for decades, that we don't deserve the human basic rate of food. Tracy Stuckrath [00:30:19]: Like, if we don't have food, we don't we die. Amy Graves [00:30:23]: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's like I've been, you know, we traveled to France and you know, I always struggle with TSA and my safe water because I can't drink water out of water fountains. I can't drink water out of plastic bottles. I have to bring my own, which is either in one of my stainless steel water bottles or I have to bring a glass bottle of water. Those are my choices. Leaving France, I was given the riot act. How dare I think I deserved safe water. Amy Graves [00:30:50]: Wow. They said you can drink water anywhere. No, you can't. I'm like. And I wrote the book on it, but you probably can't read it. Tracy Stuckrath [00:30:57]: It's not translated to France yet. Amy Graves [00:31:00]: And actually it is. And it will be available at the end of October because I have an international launch coming up. So it's available in other languages. It's just it again, it. You're putting basic people in charge of allergies and monitoring others people's food. And there's just so many things that aren't safe out there. Like I literally, like, we want my husband. I wanted to travel to like Australia. Amy Graves [00:31:23]: We can't. There's no way I could have safe water that I would need for that long of a trip. Because we're talking almost two days. Right. I'm like, right, yeah. You can't go two days. You can't go 24 hours, really, without water. Like. Tracy Stuckrath [00:31:37]: Yeah. Amy Graves [00:31:38]: And there's nothing else I can drink. So. Yeah. There's deserts everywhere and. Right. Again, I think more and more people are realizing that those issues exist. Right. Tracy Stuckrath [00:31:51]: And. And we have to be those people that are pushing for the change. Amy Graves [00:31:56]: Yeah. We're the advocates, right? Tracy Stuckrath [00:31:58]: Exactly, exactly. So the, the book shares and this is just me chatting with you knowing that this. But personal and business, personal experiences and business strategies. Can you share a story from a consumer perspective that you think a planner or a brand could. Could. Should hear. Amy Graves [00:32:17]: Should hear. Tracy Stuckrath [00:32:18]: Yeah. Amy Graves [00:32:19]: Wow. Should hear. I like, I think I have a lot of those stories. I just have to think best. 1. Do you want like someone who's going to like. I was at an event in Sacramento two years ago and the event planner put no effort into making sure there was anything safe for anybody interesting. Right. Amy Graves [00:32:39]: So even the people who are with me, like I would say a quarter of the people around me had celiacs or had a gluten intolerance and they were looking for food that was gluten free. This group ended up spending an additional 200,000 for last minute food prep because they had Nothing that was gluten free. And the amount of complaints they got that they spent X amount of money on tickets because tickets were almost 300 a pop and between a quarter to a half of the people there couldn't eat anything. Or all they got was one thing. And there's nothing there for me. Like I, like, yeah, I had my, I had to bring, I literally had to pack food and bring it with me and I would go to my hotel room to eat for lunches and meals because there's absolutely nothing there. I mean, I couldn't even drink the water. So. Tracy Stuckrath [00:33:36]: So, so say that number again. 200,000. Amy Graves [00:33:39]: 200,000 for lack of. I was on the planning. I was in the committee because it was the organization I'm involved with. And I'm like, what are we doing? Like, that was my question. What are you doing for people who have allergies or food sensitivities? Oh, no, don't worry about it. The hotel will take care of it. We're fine. Yeah, no planning whatsoever. Amy Graves [00:33:58]: And then they got mad that they blew their budget. Oh yeah. It was a three day event. Not even a three day. It was a two day event. And they there. And the hotel's gonna charge you if they. Tracy Stuckrath [00:34:12]: Oh, they are? Yeah. Amy Graves [00:34:13]: Last minute. Oh, yeah. Tracy Stuckrath [00:34:15]: And because purchasing the food, you know, can we get the food in? You know, do we already have it in stock? Amy Graves [00:34:21]: Yeah, they got robbed. Yeah. Tracy Stuckrath [00:34:24]: And then I was saying earlier, you know, when the price gratuity is 26, 25, 26, and then tax on top of that. So I mean, if it was 200, 000, it was that before or after tax? Right? Amy Graves [00:34:36]: I mean, it was after tax, thank God. Tracy Stuckrath [00:34:40]: But still, I mean that's, that's $150,000 in food prep. Right? Amy Graves [00:34:46]: Yeah, I'm like. Tracy Stuckrath [00:34:47]: And also. Amy Graves [00:34:50]: Right. You didn't think about it and you didn't ask about it on the form. Right. If you're coming to this event, you're buying a ticket. You had to fill out a two page form. Why? Wasn't one of the questions, what can you safely eat? Tracy Stuckrath [00:35:04]: Right. Amy Graves [00:35:04]: What can you do to accommodate? What do you need? And they could have at least accommodated a majority of people. Right? Tracy Stuckrath [00:35:12]: Yeah. Well, okay, so that just brings me to another, the word accommodate. Right. I was in a session on ADA a couple of weeks ago, which is a really great session. It was at. I forgot the name of the group up in D.C. and, and it was all about ADA. Amy Graves [00:35:29]: Social Economic alliance or Social. Tracy Stuckrath [00:35:31]: No, it was an event planning conference. Amy Graves [00:35:32]: Okay, okay. Tracy Stuckrath [00:35:33]: And These two people were talking about it, about Americans with Disabilities act and just accommodating disabilities. But I like the thing that one of the said is like the word accommodations means you didn't actually plan for it. Right. You didn't sign your event with intent to make it inclusive, to make it hospitable. Right. And so the word accommodation means you have to make a change to what you did because you didn't think about. And that cost that company $200,000 because of that. Amy Graves [00:36:01]: Yep. That's mind blowing. There's. And what most organizers don't want to deal with that there is a cost for not being included, inclusive. Tracy Stuckrath [00:36:10]: And I mean, with your. With your book, I mean, is there any other examples of that, of that cost of not being inclusive? Amy Graves [00:36:17]: Not the cost. Because I don't. I haven't had too many people. I had the benefit of being on that board. Tracy Stuckrath [00:36:23]: Right. Amy Graves [00:36:23]: Yeah. And being hot. Eat your grits. Tracy Stuckrath [00:36:26]: Right. Or kiss my grits. Let's give Flo some credit there. Yeah. Amy Graves [00:36:31]: Right. I like to eat because obviously it's an allergy thing. Tracy Stuckrath [00:36:35]: Right? True. That's very true. You can't. Yes. Amy Graves [00:36:38]: Yeah. Tracy Stuckrath [00:36:38]: Eat my grits for me, because I can't. Amy Graves [00:36:40]: Yeah, yeah. It's so there. I don't have too many more like cost examples, but if you think about. There are other costs that we're. That organizations are going through, and it's the same like the food industry. You're losing money. The organization I'm in, they are. Membership is dropping. Amy Graves [00:36:58]: People don't want to join. Well, if you can accommodate, if you're not doing the basics to make sure people can get in the front door, why would they join your group? Tracy Stuckrath [00:37:08]: Right. Amy Graves [00:37:09]: Well. And they're like, well, nobody. We don't have people like that in our attending. Well, of course not. They can't get in the front door. Tracy Stuckrath [00:37:17]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amy Graves [00:37:20]: Well. Tracy Stuckrath [00:37:20]: And. And I was on a. I was on a planning committee for another event for next year, and I. They were talking about it's in Savannah. And I'm like, okay, well, is this. And they're like, hey, we have to go from room to room and go to the other side of the building because it's. It's not a huge hotel, but whatever. I'm like, okay, so this is Fanna. Tracy Stuckrath [00:37:35]: I'm like, is this room. Is this hotel accessible? And they're like, yeah, it was built in the last seven years and. And whatever. And somebody's like, well, that's Tracy. Good for Tracy to say, hey, we're gonna do this, But I'm like, I want to go look at it. Right. And. And I have two wheelchairs in my house. Tracy Stuckrath [00:37:50]: Maybe I go take my dad and. And see if we can get in there. Right. And how is that movement from place to place? And I. Even years ago, a big major hotel I did a site visit on, and the space they were giving me was on two different floors, and I had like 1200 people or whatever, and there was like two elevators and an escalator bank. I'm like, you really want my whole group to go from here to here, you know, in that time frame? And I wasn't even thinking about the accessibility of attendees, but just the movement of people in general. Amy Graves [00:38:25]: Yeah. Tracy Stuckrath [00:38:26]: Like, you can't make me move that many people in that short of an amount of time. I'm gonna have to readjust my entire agenda, you know? Amy Graves [00:38:34]: Yeah, I've had a similar experience. So there was. I was in Texas for an event, and I won't name drop the hotel. I should, but I won't. And they said they were accessible. And the committee organizers told me, yeah, they told us they're accessible. You're fine. In order for me to get to one of the rooms, I had to go outside the front door of the hotel, walk halfway around the building to come in a side door that didn't have stairs. Amy Graves [00:39:03]: And that's accessible, right? Like, that's. Yeah, I. I know you. That is an accessible doorway. It really isn't an accessible for an event, though. Not one. And it was the same situation. They used a basement level and they used the main level. Amy Graves [00:39:19]: There was only an elevator bank to get down to the basement, and it broke. And for eight hours, the elevator was out and the people with disabilities were stuck in the basement. Nobody would know. Like, it literally took a couple of us to hunt through the basement looking for the employee elevator, which was blocked with chairs. So we had to move chairs out of the way to get people into the elevator so we could get upstairs. And that was, wow, two hours. And, like, had we waited, we would have been down there for a full day. We would have missed all the events because everything had moved upstairs by that point. Amy Graves [00:39:57]: Like, Right. And nobody cared. Nobody looked for us. They're like, oh, the elevator's down. Okay, you have disabled people there. Why aren't you looking? Sorry. Tracy Stuckrath [00:40:06]: Well, no, I'm doing a webinar for North Star Mediums Group in a right at 2:00 today. And we're talking about contracting and how to create wonderful food and beverage events within budget. And things like that. But that's a conversation to have. I'm like, where do you. Because planners are all, we get dinged by hotels. Like if you don't meet this deadline, if you don't meet this deadline, I'm like, but if my event has, has individuals who utilize wheelchairs and they can't get to the spaces, you need to refund me my money. Right. Tracy Stuckrath [00:40:40]: Or there has to be repercussions back to the venue or, you know, because you didn't meet the needs of my program. Amy Graves [00:40:48]: Yeah, yeah. One of the things I told the organizers to do because I ended up, because of the setup and their accessibility, I ended up getting injured physically, day one of a three day event. So I filed a complaint and I said the easiest thing to do is when you're looking for a venue, take your phone, walk through the event. Even if you don't have an available wheelchair, pretend you have a wheelchair and you can't use stairs. How do you get around? How long does it take you to go from the farthest end of the basement to the farthest end of the primary floor without using stairs? And you're going to record it because what you're going to do is you're going to put that recording on. You're going to go live with that. You're going to say for this is this, you know, not live right then. But you're going to put the, put it up on your social media. Amy Graves [00:41:39]: When you're talking about your event venue, this is what accessibility looks like. If you have, if you have mobility issues, this is what your experience will look like. Getting from room to room, it's not that difficult. I get. Hotels might like not want that. And if they say, no, you can't do that, then you're like, you're not getting my money and you go somewhere else. Maybe find a bank that a doesn't care or is all my one level, right? Tracy Stuckrath [00:42:05]: Yeah. Amy Graves [00:42:05]: Yeah. Tracy Stuckrath [00:42:07]: So what's the, I mean, what's the business cost of this? Right? I mean for not doing this. I mean, are there stats on that? Amy Graves [00:42:16]: There's no stats. Because who's tracking it? I ask the questions nobody wants to track. Right. And then how do you track that? You like, do you put us like pop, do a pop up near the end? Did you choose not to go to this event? Can you tell us why? Right. Tracy Stuckrath [00:42:39]: Or the income or the incomplete registrations? Why did you choose not to come? Right. Amy Graves [00:42:43]: Well, there's an incomplete registration. That's a red flag. Where did they stop? Tracy Stuckrath [00:42:48]: Right. Amy Graves [00:42:48]: Like You a lot of detail by looking at incomplete registrations. Go through it and think about someone in a different perspective. So I think there's data in there. We're just not following it. I think the biggest indicator is have your events consistently gotten better over the time and you're still bringing in money, or is it a slow decline and slowly declining? That means you're no longer hitting the people who need to be at your event. So now you do have to take into consideration food and accessibility, because those are the main things hitting American consumers today. Right? Yeah. Tracy Stuckrath [00:43:30]: Okay, so what is. Let's look at it positively. Right. What is. From a business standpoint, what's one simple shift that a venue could do, an event could do, from your perspective and the research in the book to create an immediate trust with the hidden consumer? Amy Graves [00:43:48]: Be transparent. It's not that there's a great. If you go to my. My hit the hidden consumer Facebook page, if you. There is a video from September 3rd on there where I literally walk people through what my event setup looks like. I walk them. I do a full like on of the dessert table with all the labels so they can see every single thing. I'm being open and honest. Amy Graves [00:44:10]: What I missed was I didn't do that in advance. Right. Tracy Stuckrath [00:44:15]: Okay. Amy Graves [00:44:16]: For the event, you need to market and talk about what you're doing to be accessible to a variety of people, whether it food, whether it be quiet rooms, or maybe it planned an event that is all on one flare floor and you've got space. There are groups that have changed the setup of their banquet rooms based on my. My talking to them, but they don't advertise that they changed it. So if you think ADA for a banquet room setup, chairs pushed in is the measurement for getting a wheelchair through. Tracy Stuckrath [00:44:53]: Right, Right. And that annoys the crap out of me. Amy Graves [00:44:58]: Right. This organization actually went as far as to change that measurement. So whatever it is supposed to be is now stumbled. So the chair comes out and then they make sure they can get a wheelchair through. They never talk about it. Well, and who's gonna know you're doing it if you don't tell people? They're not gonna show up. Tracy Stuckrath [00:45:17]: Right, right, right, exactly. I went to a couple years ago, I spoke at an event that was the Inclusion Conference. I won't name the organization, but it was the Inclusion Conference. And my first thought going into the keynote speaker is that somebody in a wheelchair, utilizing a wheelchair, cannot get into this room. Amy Graves [00:45:34]: Yeah. Tracy Stuckrath [00:45:35]: I mean, they could. Literally. The chairs were so crammed that they could not get into the keynote speaker. And I'm like, how are you promoting the fact that this is a conference on this and you're not designing your event to meet that need? I'm like, mind blowing. Right? And putting your Facebook. Amy Graves [00:45:55]: Yeah, yeah. And the other side of it was you have a lot of people that have hearing issues or vision issues now. So you can't just have a keynote speaker and not have the TVs and have it closed captioned. Keynote speakers write their speeches out in advance. You can literally type that in. The events I've been to, they have been required. Tracy Stuckrath [00:46:20]: Okay. Amy Graves [00:46:21]: Which, it's great you're doing that extra step. Why aren't you talking about it? Hearing ex. People who have hearing issues. What we're doing for this event is our keynote speakers, our speakers all, everyone who will be on stage is required to submit their script. So we can close caption it for you. Tracy Stuckrath [00:46:44]: Interesting. Amy Graves [00:46:45]: Okay, again, how many more people are going to show up because you thought of them without you even realizing it? Right. Tracy Stuckrath [00:46:53]: Because we joke about how the closed captioning is incorrect at the bottom. Right. Amy Graves [00:46:58]: And if I had to do it, still be incorrect because I like to ad lib. Tracy Stuckrath [00:47:02]: Well, that's my thing. Yeah. Amy Graves [00:47:04]: I mean. Tracy Stuckrath [00:47:06]: Right. The gist is there so I can talk. And I actually tried to do that. I did write a speech earlier this year to do it. And I got up there and one sentence in, I said to the audience, I'm sorry, I completely forgot my speech. And then I just ad libbed. And the poor guy, the sound guy, I had given him clues of when to play sounds and he didn't have any clues because I totally outlived it from there. But nobody, nobody would have known because I knew my stuff. Amy Graves [00:47:34]: Right. Tracy Stuckrath [00:47:35]: I know my content and. But at the same time, I would never have been able to give a script to them to do that. Yeah, I mean, I did give it to him. Amy Graves [00:47:42]: I didn't follow it. Tracy Stuckrath [00:47:43]: But yeah. So I mean, but that makes, you know, that's where applications. And even if it's spelled incorrectly, maybe, you know, the closed captioning is so important. Amy Graves [00:47:54]: Yeah. Tracy Stuckrath [00:47:54]: Right. Amy Graves [00:47:54]: And yeah. And it's little things like that people don't think about. There is an event I was hearing about and someone who had attended this event was like, I was so impressed. They actually prepared a table and space for people who needed this accommodation. And I'm like, that is so cool. I said how cool would have been though, if they would have actually marketed that in advance so more people could have attended. And it Was like, everyone's like, oh, my God, that's so insightful. I'm like, how insightful is it to be a good person and to tell people you want them there, you're giving them the accommodation without knowing you're going to be there. Amy Graves [00:48:29]: Yeah, it's. I mean, I get it. As someone in marketing, sometimes it's a hard line because you don't want to come across like you're trying to market on someone else's disability. But you know what? My. From my perspective, as someone who has mobility issues, if you're making space for me and you're putting thought into it without me telling you, I am more likely to attend your event. Right. Well. Tracy Stuckrath [00:48:51]: And no. Yeah. I mean, and one lady. And I use the story a lot. Amy Graves [00:48:56]: I used. Tracy Stuckrath [00:48:56]: I chatted with a woman who used to work at the Hotel Dell, and we were talking about accessibility at the property. And like, if you're going to do a beach. Beach event right. At the hotel in San Diego, she's like, if you tell that person who utilizes the wheelchairs, mobility challenges or mobility needs, if you only tell that one person, that's how they're getting out to the beach. Are you calling out that hour, that disability to everyone else? Why not design the entryway? So that's how everyone gets there. Right. And then I also point out, I do it in my slides. I'm like, I tell that story. Tracy Stuckrath [00:49:34]: And then I'm like, okay, and what happens when they get to the end of that walkway? Right. Yeah. Do you have walkways through the whole thing? Have you. Amy Graves [00:49:41]: You know, so. Tracy Stuckrath [00:49:42]: Right. Or they stuck right there at the end and just watching everybody walk by and eating. Right? Yeah. Amy Graves [00:49:47]: Yep. Yep. And that's. That's a great example. It's like. And that's. And what's interesting is how many people have mobility issues that won't tell you. Tracy Stuckrath [00:49:57]: Right. Amy Graves [00:49:59]: That was one of the big things that I learned that conference I got injured at. I. I raised holy hell. Like, that's just. I'm like, this is not acceptable. The amount of people who are conference attendees who had knee issues or leg pains, but they use a walker, a wheelchair means they're like, thank you so much for saying things because this will probably be our last event that we attend because there's no way this event show that this group can't accommodate basic and be just simple. Make sure everybody can enjoy and get to each room that they need to. Right, Right. Amy Graves [00:50:34]: So. Tracy Stuckrath [00:50:35]: Well, and that reminds me. And I've told this story before, when I say speak to is that I planned an event at Epcot years ago, probably 20 years ago, and we did a scavenger hunt and this gentleman, and this was an internal event and this gentleman said to me, I really wish I'd known I would be walking three to five miles today, you know, before we got to this event. And I said, well, why? And he goes, well, he's a former NFL football player and he has a pain management. His medicine is dispersed through a machine on his side. He goes, I would have changed the disbursement of my medication in advance if I, I had known. And I'm like, oh my gosh. You know, those are things that, you know, like, hey, let's let, just to let you know, we're going to be walking five miles today. Right? You could be walking up to five. Amy Graves [00:51:26]: Miles today and not enough people are doing that yet. I think I see that more and more. Where, hey, by the way, this event, this is what it set up. You might end up walking this many miles, like right, cool. Or you know, but right. And again, it goes back to we have that health, that consumer who. Hidden consumer who is. Has health issues. Amy Graves [00:51:45]: That's a health issue. Just because you're an NFL, former NFL player doesn't mean you're, you're someone else isn't going to have that exact same problem. Tracy Stuckrath [00:51:53]: Exactly. Amy Graves [00:51:55]: So, so many people, it's just, it impacts so many people in this country that we're just ignoring because we don't know what to do. And it's not that hard. Right. Communicate. Tracy Stuckrath [00:52:06]: Communicate, exactly. Yeah. Talk to them, ask the questions. Right. And if they're not willing to share, that's their choice. Right? Yeah. Amy Graves [00:52:13]: Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. And they shouldn't have to be put on the spot. Not everybody wants to be like the face of I'm going to cause all your problems because it's going to get fixed. Advocate. Right? Yeah. Tracy Stuckrath [00:52:25]: And I am too. I'm like, okay, hey, I am the person that's going to come in here and look at your menus and tell you what works and what doesn't work and really diving into it. Yeah. Amy Graves [00:52:34]: Yeah. Tracy Stuckrath [00:52:35]: Okay. I have some rapid fire questions for you. Okay. And, and my first question here and I, you can tell me if you can eat this or not, but guacamole. Amy Graves [00:52:46]: With or without cilantro, I can't do guacamole. It would have to be homemade and I don't have the time and patience for that. I have to make enough food. Tracy Stuckrath [00:52:54]: And why can't you do tell me why you can't do the guacamole because. Amy Graves [00:52:57]: If I buy, like, prepackaged stuff, it's just automatically going to have some kind of a corn derivative or the packaging itself is going to make me sick. So. Tracy Stuckrath [00:53:04]: Okay. And the. And if they're doing it in a restaurant, the avocado is probably fine because it's not been in a package, but. Amy Graves [00:53:10]: No, it's probably not certified organic from wherever local it is. It's going to be coming. More than likely it'll be imported from form, like Mexico, and then it will be sprayed and not raised organically. So not. Tracy Stuckrath [00:53:23]: Okay. So do you like cilantro, or does cilantro make your mouth feel taste soapy? Amy Graves [00:53:27]: I haven't had cilantro in ages. I don't remember it making me. I don't remember tasting soap, though, so I don't think it's a big deal. Not my favorite. Tracy Stuckrath [00:53:37]: All right, if you could. If you could wave a magic wand and make one ingredient label crystal clear for everyone, what would it be? Amy Graves [00:53:46]: Natural flavors. It's where everything that's not natural goes to hide. Oh, no, I got my. Tracy Stuckrath [00:53:53]: I can still hear you. You're good. Oh, okay. Amy Graves [00:53:55]: Well, that's good. Internet. Tracy Stuckrath [00:53:58]: Yeah. Amy Graves [00:53:58]: Not today. No. Natural flavors is where everything goes to hide. We don't. You don't see corn fructose or high fructose corn syrup on labels anymore because it's hiding in natural flavors. Tracy Stuckrath [00:54:10]: Interesting. And is it a small. And is it a small amount of it or is. It could still be a big amount. Amy Graves [00:54:16]: It can be a main ingredient, but it doesn't have to be labeled as a main ingredient. Tracy Stuckrath [00:54:21]: Interesting. That's really scary. Okay, if you could host a hidden consumer friendly dinner anywhere in the world, where would it be? Amy Graves [00:54:30]: Honestly, it would be where I just came back in June. My husband and I celebrated our 25th wedding anniversary. Congratulations. Thank you. The Alsatian region of France, so it's the border between, like, Germany and Switzerland and then France, and I would do a meal there because they are all about organic food. So it's highly likely we could accommodate almost everybody who needed some kind of food. Food sensitivity issue we would take to be able to take in that region. Tracy Stuckrath [00:54:58]: And the labeling over in Europe is much stronger. I mean, it's been around. The required labeling has been around for at least 11 years, so. Amy Graves [00:55:06]: Well, they recognize more things than the US does. They still don't recognize corn, but you don't need to recognize corn. You just need to be transparent with what's in your food, which they absolutely are like I did really good eating at regional restaurants. I just not so much at the French cuisine restaurants. Tracy Stuckrath [00:55:23]: Okay. Amy Graves [00:55:24]: All right. That was totally different thought process there, so. Oh, yeah, yeah. Tracy Stuckrath [00:55:28]: That would. Yeah. That would be like going to a regular mom and pop. Amy Graves [00:55:32]: Yeah. Tracy Stuckrath [00:55:32]: In general. Yes. Okay. What's one book besides your own that hit. That inspired you to think about food, about food or business? Amy Graves [00:55:44]: My book is so different and off the wall, and I. I'm bringing in products and thought processes that no one's ever introduced before that. I don't think, if anything, everything in my. In my sphere was just an influence to say you're thinking about this differently and we need to put it into process. So I don't think there was one book. Tracy Stuckrath [00:56:04]: And pull that book that. What's that orange book back there? You know, bring that forward. I want to see it. Amy Graves [00:56:11]: Yesterday. Tracy Stuckrath [00:56:14]: Yes. Amy Graves [00:56:15]: Okay. Super small. Super. Okay. You can see big letters. Yeah. Not completely Ada friendly because he hidden should have been outlined in black or white to make it pop off the orange background. So some people aren't going to be able to see the word hidden. Amy Graves [00:56:30]: The word hidden is hidden. Good job. Tracy Stuckrath [00:56:34]: Well, okay, so just talking about colors, I was at a restaurant last night in town, and they say anything written in blue is gluten free. And there's one salad that's written in blue, and then the other ones are in red. And then there's. And then all the steamed products are gluten free. And I'm like, well, is this. I'm like, what on the salad has gluten in it? And she's like, well, there's nothing. But it's one of our signature dishes. So it's in red. Tracy Stuckrath [00:57:00]: Like so. My point. So my discussion with my friend is like, so don't label them blue. Put an icon next to them. Right. Because now you're losing out on sales because you said it's by color. And then if somebody's colorblind, they can't read that. Amy Graves [00:57:17]: Best story for that. Oh, my gosh. We went to a restaurant. Not a restaurant, a winery in Temecula. Their colors are black and red. They handed my husband, who's colorblind, a partially colorblind, a black menu with red font. He handed it back. Goes. Amy Graves [00:57:33]: Why did you hand me a black. A blank piece of paper. He can't see it. Red and black for people who are partially colorblind or colorblind is all the same color. Color. Tracy Stuckrath [00:57:45]: Wow. Amy Graves [00:57:45]: So my question is, what's the background color of that menu? Because if it's blue or red, it's highly likely someone can't read those. Read what is. Tracy Stuckrath [00:57:54]: It's cream. So, yeah. Amy Graves [00:57:56]: Okay. So not bad. Yeah, not bad. Tracy Stuckrath [00:57:58]: But it's. But in a restaurant, I'm like, looking at blue. Dissertaining. I'm trying to use this word blue from black. Amy Graves [00:58:06]: Right. Tracy Stuckrath [00:58:06]: In a restaurant when the lights are dimmed, I'm like, that's going to be near impossible. Right. Just put a freaking GF next to it or whatever. Right. Amy Graves [00:58:13]: That's all you have to do. Like, Right. You want it to be different, but it makes it harder. Right, Exactly. Yeah. Tracy Stuckrath [00:58:22]: All right, last question. My friend and I can listen to you laugh all day long. You and my friend Julie. Finish the sentence. Amy Graves [00:58:28]: Every meal should be open to everybody. There. I don't know how else to put it. But every. Every meal should be inclusive. Not accommodating. Inclusive. One of the things I wrote in my book is I attended a family holiday event. Amy Graves [00:58:43]: Not during the holiday, but it was afterwards. They made food. There was nothing there I could eat, so I left the house for four hours. I went shopping. Nobody knew I was gone. Made moving to California so much easier, knowing that my presence wasn't needed. And when it comes to family events, food is what brings people together. And if you have people who can't eat what you're providing or you ridicule them, they're going to stop showing up. Amy Graves [00:59:14]: So how important is food more important than your family? And in my case, food was more important than family. So. Wow. Oh, all right. Tracy Stuckrath [00:59:24]: I don't. Amy Graves [00:59:25]: All right. Tracy Stuckrath [00:59:25]: How can everybody get your book? I don't know how to handle that. Amy Graves [00:59:28]: I'm like that. Just like. Tracy Stuckrath [00:59:30]: So, like, I want to give you. Reach through here and give you a hug. Amy Graves [00:59:34]: But when you're eating at a meeting, is your food more important than the people who are trying to support you? And more often than not, it is. Food is more important than the people there to support you. Right? Right. Tracy Stuckrath [00:59:47]: Yeah. Amy Graves [00:59:48]: That's the bottom line. Tracy Stuckrath [00:59:50]: Right. So use the food to enhance that importance of the people. Right? Yeah. Amy Graves [00:59:57]: We value you. We want you there. How can we make it happen? Right? Tracy Stuckrath [01:00:03]: Oh, my goodness. It's heart wrenching. Amy Graves [01:00:07]: Hey, you want more stories like that? Tracy Stuckrath [01:00:09]: Yes. Okay. There's how you can get. Oops, I need to change that. Let me fix that real quick. Amy Graves [01:00:16]: It's gonna be hidden consumer.com backslash. I have to get the redirect fix so that it goes go when you type in the hidden consumer.com and go the hiddenconsumer.com. Tracy Stuckrath [01:00:26]: And then I will. Here's the link to the Amazon thing, but I will put that in the chat. So. Amy Graves [01:00:34]: And you can buy anywhere. You can go to your local bookstore and buy the book. So. Tracy Stuckrath [01:00:39]: Okay. Amy Graves [01:00:39]: All right. It's available everywhere and soon internationally. Tracy Stuckrath [01:00:47]: Amy, thank you so much. I mean, this has been so enlightening, you know, even more enlightening than last time. And. And here's her link on LinkedIn as well. But it's. Thank you for doing what you're doing. Amy Graves [01:01:02]: You're welcome. Tracy Stuckrath [01:01:02]: And thank you for giving me the time to be here anytime. Amy Graves [01:01:05]: You're my favorite host. Thank you. Tracy Stuckrath [01:01:09]: We can totally do this again. And I'm hoping to see you in San Diego in or outside of San Diego in December. Amy Graves [01:01:15]: So I'm here. I'm not moving. Not yet. Okay. Tracy Stuckrath [01:01:18]: All right, awesome. Well, everybody, thank you so much for tuning in. We had a couple people over here on Instagram. Nancy, I think you've been here the whole time. Thank you. Fiona, Spring Royal, Toby, appreciate you being here and tuning in. And everybody, until next time, stay safe and eat well. And let Amy and I know if you have any questions about eating at a meeting. Tracy Stuckrath [01:01:39]: And these help. Thanks. Thanks for listening to the Eating at a Meeting podcast where every meal matters. I'm Tracy Stuckrath, your food and beverage inclusion expert. Call me and let's get started right now on creating safe and inclusive food and beverage experiences for your customers, your employees, and your communities. Share the podcast with your friends and colleagues at our Eating at a Meeting Facebook page and on all podcast platforms. To learn more about me and receive valuable information, go to tracystuckrath.com and if you'd like more information on how to feed engagement, nourish inclusion, and bolster your bottom line, then visit eating@ameeting.com. Sa.