Food Allergy & Celiac Awareness: Raising the Bar for Safer, Inclusive Events

Tracy Stuckrath [00:00:00]:
Foreign. Hey everybody and welcome to another episode of Eating at a Meeting. I am alone today, solo. And I'm solo because today is the first, first Wednesday of May and I really wanted to come on here and celebrate the fact that Thrive meetings and events, this logo down here is 16 year olds, 16 years old. This month I launched the company Eating at a Meeting podcast is now going into its sixth year, started it in May of 2020 and it also may propose is food allergy awareness month and Celiac disease awareness month. So I thought it was really important to show up and talk about, you know, how this matters and why I started my business in general and what we need to be focusing on going forward as it relates to eating at a meeting and we talk about dietary restrictions. So again, I started my company in 2010 because food allergies, food I was actually diagnosed with a food allergy and I couldn't eat at the hundred events a year I was planning on my own. And it is the number one line item that we all have in our event budgets.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:01:26]:
And I saw an opportunity for the industry to refocus how we're doing, you know, how we're serving individuals like myself with dietary restrictions who have diet restrictions in any sort of fashion. It's food allergies, celiac disease, anybody who is follows a religious based practice, Jane Kosher, halal, and then individuals who have lifestyle preferences that could consider, you know, who are gluten free but not celiac, who are vegan, vegetarian, pescatarian, flexitarian even. And how do we fill that gap in feeding those individuals? So that's why I started my company 16 years ago this month. And it's, you know, I'm so excited to be here to do that. And then six years ago in 2020, it was during COVID as you know. And I actually got that month I got I think eight different requests to speak on food allergy or Covid and eating at a meeting. And so that is when I started the Eating at a Meeting Facebook group and I spoke on how Covid impacts event catering. And so that's where the podcast, the podcast started from doing Facebook lives in that Facebook group.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:02:51]:
That Facebook group is still alive and active. If you'd like to join it, just look for eating at a meeting on Facebook. And now I am at, if I remember correctly, I should look at, I should have had this number in front of you, but I've interviewed over 300 guests in the last six years. So there is a lot of rich content around eating at a meeting and it's a really good title to show what I'm doing. But let's see, I am actually at episode, I think 325. So there's lots of different conversations that I've had with experts around the world around different topics of farming and inclusion and food allergies and dietary restrictions. And actually, I think I'm wrong. I am up to 364 episodes.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:03:48]:
Holy moly. So that means I've interviewed almost 400 people because there were multiple people in some of those episodes. So I'm really proud of that work and that content. And if you think about the content, just let me give you a little preface here that I have some professors across the country that use the content to educate their students in class. They use it actually as a reference for students to go and listen and provide reports on episodes that I've recorded with different episodes with different experts in the field. And it's been really amazing being in the classes of some of those professors to hear what those students have learned from those episodes as well, and how those episodes impacted them professionally, personally and professionally, and how they're going to take that information onto their. What they do in the events industry. So I'm very, very proud of that.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:04:52]:
And so now it is food allergy. Now I want to jump into the fact that it is Food Allergy Awareness month and Celiac Disease awareness Month. And I. It's, I guess it's very apropos that I started my company and the podcast in this month because that's what I like to focus on and talk about a lot. So some stats, let's go forward with some stats in general. But 32 million, and I think it's 32 to 33 million Americans have food allergies. And if you go globally, it's over 250 million people worldwide that have food allergies. In the US that's 1 in 10 adults.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:05:31]:
And next week, I actually will be talking to some event professionals in the United Kingdom who actually have stats on what how many people in the United Kingdom have food allergies. And so we'll be talking about what they're doing. So 1 in 10 adults, that's 10% of our attendees have food allergies. And 1 in 13 children have food allergies. And those numbers are rising every single day. I was chatting with a friend yesterday, and he was just, you know, talking about the way the food is processed and variety of things and how that impacts how we as humans are now allergic to a lot of food that we may not have been in the past. This food allergies is not niche. It's about.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:06:24]:
And it's not people who are just picky eaters. I mean, some of these people with food allergies could potentially die from eating something that is made from the food that they're allergic to. It could be a hidden shellfish, it could be hidden nuts, could be, it could be garlic and onions. And while there are more than 170 foods that are known to cause allergic reactions, There are only nine. There are nine that cause 90% of all allergic reactions worldwide. And that is fish, shellfish, soy, wheat, tree nuts, peanuts, sesame, milk and eggs. And if you think about that, where do we use milk and eggs in our daily lives and in our, in our food and beverage events as well? Wheat is in a lot of the products that we serve. Soy is a hidden ingredient in a lot of products because it's a protein that is used for an additive in a lot of food and beverage that is sold, whether it is on a, in a prepackaged A item or it's on an event buffet.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:07:41]:
And it really, it really is important to understand where these things are hidden. And I'm actually in the process right now. I've got four events coming up that I am actually coding and labeling menu items for my clients. And it's startling, you know, when one, I'm looking through the menu items that are offered by these hotels and can. They're, they're all hotels so that are offered by these hotels. And when one, they're not labeled and so it makes it really hard. And two, I am looking through it and I'm analyzing it and I find that out of 30 appetizer options, there's not a single one that's vegan. There's not.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:08:28]:
And that, and that impacts individuals who have milk allergies or egg allergies and shellfish aller, you know, so when I, when I'm looking for different items, it's really hard to find one or even two options out of 13. And when you're producing receptions for four days, I can't serve those people the exact same thing for four days straight. So it's, and that's really looking at, it's not only looking at the menus, you know, how we're designing those menus, but it's looking at how we document that information as well. When I'm as the person who's responsible food and for food and beverage and, or just the managing the dietary needs of your, of the attendees at your Event. You know, having that information on a banquet event order or a BEO is super important. Our staff who works at the hotel relies on those banquet event orders to know what they're doing. It's. They live and die by that banquet event order.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:09:32]:
And it's, it's kind of scary how that information is not necess, is not relayed onto the banquet event order. And if it is relayed onto the banquet event order, how that information is not followed. And I think I've talked about this before, but two years ago I did an event and I said no nuts to be served on any event menu that we were serving at this four day conference because we had people who could not be in the room with nuts, they could not shake someone's hand who just ate nuts, et cetera. So we removed all nuts. And granted, the hotel was not nut free, but our event could be nut free. I walked into my show office first, went into the show office and there's two huge bowls of cashews and almonds. Even. It said, even though the banquet event order says no nuts to be served at all.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:10:26]:
And then, and that server came in and removed those, was embarrassed by what happened, removed those items. But the next morning there were muffins with nuts on it. And thankfully that same server was working that breakfast, breakfast event for me. And he saw that and he pulled those, he pulled the whole tray of muffins off the table, off the buffet, and took it back to the kitchen. And that pastry chef said, oh, I forgot that there were not supposed to be nuts. So it makes it really hard. We need to. Sixteen years into doing this, and not that I've reached every single hotel and every single catering company, you know, around the United States, but it's really hard to believe that when I've put those directions out there and I've asked the property to do that, that they say, oh, I forgot.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:11:22]:
When this is somebody's life that's at risk, I don't know how you can forget. And nobody would have noticed the fact that there were no nuts on that dish. If anybody is sitting here saying, oh, well, you're depriving people, nobody would have been deprived of having nuts. Nobody would have noticed that the muffins didn't contain nuts in them. So it's really something that we need to still elevate. Sixteen years in, I want it. I could bang my head on my desk. That's wood here or my wall here.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:11:57]:
Let's bang my head on this wall, right? And some of those things are being changed a little bit with food allergy laws that are coming. But I want to I'll touch on that in just a second. But I want to also touch on celiac disease because this May is also Celiac Disease awareness month and there are 3 million Americans. One hundred and her every one in 133Americans has celiac disease and there's 83% of them are undiagnosed. And there are, there are other ones that have cel, don't have celiac but have a gluten sensitivity. And again just like food allergies, this is not a preference. This is an autoimmune disease that can potentially harm those individuals and and knock them out from attending your event. Like they, they arrive and they, they are now in the hospital or they're in their room suffering from a variety of different things and re things meaning reactions to eating that celiac disease or eating that gluten.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:13:10]:
And just so you understand, Celiac disease again is an autoimmune disease that is triggered by someone consuming and some of some individuals can actually touch as well anything that contains gluten. And gluten is a protein that is found in wheat, rye and barley. And right now if you we, we do have some laws that say you can labeling things gluten free. It has to be less than 20 parts per million in the United States. In the UK I believe it's less than 10, 5 or 10 parts per million to be able to label it gluten free. But there's a lot of loopholes in that. Barley and oats and rye are not necessarily labeled required labeling on things. So there's some loopholes in it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:13:58]:
But I also want to mention some Instagram feeds that I've been watching lately. One is by silly silly celiac and the other is by macros. The macro I've got to find him macro where let's look at his the macro celiac and they're talking about a specific brand that has been promoting did a video promoting the fact that you know hey it doesn't matter. This this food costs more money. It's. It's safe for you. Well who it and both the macro celiac and silly silly celiac's point in this is that it's not you should not be capitalizing on the fact that somebody has a medically diagnosed disease that requires them to eat this food. And just because it's celiac safe does not mean you should be charging three times as much money for it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:15:10]:
So that's another challenge that we have in this industry food allergies. In this market of people with food allergies and celiac diseases, the food that we need to eat sometimes costs a lot more money. And, and actually like macaroni and cheese. And I, I don't. Let's see if I can find my picture. I was in the grocery store recently and I was looking at the Kraft macaroni and cheese options and Kraft does have a gluten free version of their Mac and ch. But let's see if I can show this really quickly. I'm going to just do this makeshift way.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:15:49]:
As you can see that the regular Mac and cheese is $1.29, right? No, $1.28. And the gluten free version is $3.29. So did I get that right? Like that is if I can do my. That's more than double, right? Or that's double. And that, that's crazy. So people with, with a medically diagnosed disease has to pay more money for something to eat that's the same as everyone else and that's just wrong. So we need to combat that. And I know that I have been given as an event professional.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:16:35]:
There was a hotel years ago, a couple of years ago, I was doing an event and they charged me $36 for a gallon of dairy free milk. I could have gone to Whole Foods, which we all joke and call it whole paycheck, and gotten that same gallon of milk for $5. But the hotel was charging me $36 for that gallon. And the regular milk that was going to be on the coffee buffet and this was for coffee service was cost me nothing. That came as standard practice. But they, for me, for them to go out and get a gallon of dairy free milk, they were charging me $35 or whatever it was, but it was in the 30s, so that's where you know why I do my work. We need to learn how to use these guests, use us. And we're welcome to, we're happy to be used in a positive way to design menus that are inclusive, that are free of that welcome everyone to the table and actually help you reduce your risk, streamline your practices and save yourself money and then in the turn make more money.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:17:53]:
Because the way if you design these options for people who are, who are vegan, who are gluten free, who have food allergies and you do it the right way, you're going to bring, you're going to create a huge fan. And we bring our friends, we choose to bring our friends or we're going to say, hey, no, I don't want to go eat at that hotel anymore, because they didn't respect my needs. They didn't find my needs to be important to them. And that's the thing about this. It's not. I mean, I want you to use this as an opportunity. I want you to make sure that you're welcoming these guests to the table, whether you're an event planner or you're a venue or a catering company. I was recently on a call being interviewed to be a speaker at an event.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:18:42]:
And the one of the three people, I believe she's an event planner, said to me, well, isn't it the ultimate responsibility of the person who has the dietary need to decide if they can and can't eat? And I. And so answer that question in your head. What do you think the answer to that question is? My answer is, yes, it is. But you, as the event host, who has invited that person to attend, who has taken that person's money, who has said, hey, I will provide you food and beverage at this event with the money that you provided me to attend the event. You have a duty of care to make sure that person has something to eat that's safe for them. And. And especially if you ask the question, hey, do you have any dietary needs that we need to accommodate while you're here? Well, you just now took that step and said, hey, I want you here. I want to acknowledge you.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:19:42]:
I want you to be in this room, and I'm gonna. I'm asking you the question. So you need to follow up. You have a duty to care. But me, as the person who has dietary restrictions, also, if you put something in front of me and it does not look right, if, hey, there's some croutons in there and I'm gluten free, I'm going to say, no, I can't eat that. That's on you. That's on the venue to make sure that. To do it right.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:20:06]:
Think through what you're doing. I remember talking to my friends Jessica and Colleen on a podcast episode a couple of months ago, or it was probably last year. And Jessica mentioned, you know, going, looking through the buffets, right? And we've got all the printed menus, and she's opening up the chafing dishes. Well, the label says dairy free. And she opens up the chafing dish and there's cheese all over it. Like, where was the misstep? Where was that? Missed by the catering, by the back of the house. You know, did that information not get passed on. What was, what are your standard operating procedures? Actually, and there's an interview that I recently did or I interviewed somebody recently for article that I wrote for North Star Meetings Group and I'll put that in the chats.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:20:58]:
And she said to me, she's like, it's not the allergen or the gluten that's the problem. It's your standard operating procedures. It's your processes or the lack of processes to make sure that you're feeding people safely. And that goes from you as the event planner to what information you provide to your catering team, whether it's a hotel, convention center or private caterer, to that catering team's now responsibility for passing that information on. And think about all of the people that are in that process, right? In a hotel, depending on how large the hotel is, you probably have a pastry chef, a gar manger which makes the salads and things like that. You have somebody that's making the main dishes. Then you have the banquet captains and the servers. And the banquet captains are the ones responsible for making the labels and they're going to follow the B E O hopefully, right? And then you have, and then the servers and the bartenders.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:22:01]:
You have a lot of people in that mix who need to follow that information and adhere to that information. Especially if a meeting planner has contracted it in their contract. And I would tell meeting planners, put it in your contract, you will label for the top nine allergens. And you know, so then that property is then on notice that they have to do it and listening or chatting with another Ryan Gambala, who's an attorney for properties for restaurants. He said in an episode in episode number 261 that once a venue is on notice, even if it even. Well, once someone on staff of that venue is on notice or has been told that I am allergic to such and such or I have gluten free. The entire venue is now on notice. The entire company is now on notice.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:22:58]:
Whether it's the busboy, whether it's the server, whether it's the event sales manager. The entire venue is now on notice. And your SOPs should come into play. So what are your SOPs? I feel like I'm, I hope I'm not yelling and I'm just explaining this very directly and succinctly to you. And so okay, the where do I want to go next? So some of the laws and this is the what I just wrote for North Star Meetings group as well. July 1st. There is a new law that comes into effect becomes effective July 1st in California. And it's called the Addie Act, A D D E and it stands for Allergen Disclosure in Dining Environments.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:23:51]:
And it requires any venue, any food service venue that has 20 or location 20 locations or more nationwide that they must disclose if any of the food that they are serving contains the top nine allergens. It can be printed on a menu, it can be on a QR code. Staff should be well aware of it. But those venues now need to be able to, must disclose that information. I did talk to a couple of people in the state of California on the legal side of this and the execution of this. And yes, it's officially a law as of July 1, but we know that it's going to take a little bit of time for the activation and the complete and understanding and the full regulation being implemented on it. But there will be fines if you don't adhere to this. Hopefully that's not the first thing that the state goes after is, hey, I'm going to find you this much money because you didn't do this.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:24:55]:
It's going to take some time and it's going to take some time for those venues to educate their staff as well. But know this, as an event professional, you can now ask your catering teams and your restaurants that you're participating, that you've got, that you're contracting with, like, hey, can you, you need to update and you know, label for the top nine allergens. I did put a list and I will put all the, the list, the checklists or the, the links to all the show, these things that I'm listing, talking about in the show notes after the fact. But one of the things that I, some of the hotels or the restaurants that I looked up for this article. Let's see that. Let's see. Oh, it's not in that. I'll find it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:25:49]:
But there's a list of restaurants that now will because they have more than 20 locations nationwide. And these are restaurants that actually are ones that we contract quite a bit with, you know, for events. And so they, they are national chains. They are, they are chains. And so they will be required to label. I'm trying to see where that list is. Okay, so the Capital Grill, Chart House, Dave and Buster's. I mean, and again, these are venues that we contract as event professionals, right? Fogo de Chao, Maggiano's, McCormick and Schmick's, Morton's, the Steakhouse, Nobu, Ocean Prime.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:26:41]:
We now have. They need to be labeling these items in, in their restaurants, no matter if it's in California. Well, in California they most definitely do, but hopefully they're implementing it nationwide. But because they have more than 20 locations nationwide, they must be labeling for the top nine allergens on their menus or on a QR code, et cetera, for you to be able to access as well as for your attendees to access that information. Okay. So some things that as I mentioned earlier that I'm currently working on with some clients. Oh actually sorry, I'm going to go back to the laws. So California is one law that has is becomes effective on January or July 1st.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:27:26]:
In Illinois there's already a law that requires all food service handlers to go through celiac gluten free training. So you can ask whatever venue that you're working with, a catering company if they have gone through the celiac disease training, gluten free training. And that law became effective last year. So and I can, I'll put the link into that episode with the senator who put that through, pushed that through in Massachusetts, Maryland, Michigan, Rhode Island, Virginia. And there are different training opportunity training regulations. Texas requires food food allergy training to all food service personnel and that became effective in September 2024. New York, this is what I'm going to write an article about too. In 2024 it became right law that places that can host up to or 1,000 people or more in their venue.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:28:30]:
So think stadiums, convention centers, conference centers that can host a thousand people or more must stock epinephrine in their venue. So if you're contracting with a venue in north in New York City or New York State, ask them about their epinephrine and who on staff is trained on utilizing it because that is another aspect of the law that it does require that somebody is trained on how to administer in that. But there are some other states that are similar to California in implementing laws that require the top nine allergens to be labeled on unpackaged food at any kind of food service venue. They are actually going broader than California and they're saying that it's anybody that serves food and beverage will require labeling, must require labeling on their menus. I got an email about New York implementing one as they're working on a bill right now in New York State to do that as well. So look through. You know, I will update you on all of those different regulations. Michigan is working on one, Ohio, Virginia, as I said.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:29:42]:
So stay tuned to those. So it won't be federal law, but it will be statewide law that food allergens need to be identified on unpackaged food, which means all of our buffets and all of our past hors d', oeuvres, you know, any menu item that we. That we're serving to our attendees. So we, as that one planner did ask me, well, isn't it the end user, the eater's responsibility for deciding that? Yes, but soon it's going to be regulation that you have to do it. So I behoove you to get ahead of the game and work through this and get your standard operating procedures in place. And Monday, we're going to talk about some stuff that's going on in the United Kingdom about how a lot of them are doing it because their law has been in place now for 12 years, that unpackaged food is labeled, and that's called the EU 1169. And they also have the. A couple of other regulations around that to fill in some loopholes that the EU 1169 had.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:30:54]:
Okay, so some things to think through as a meeting professional when you're doing this is coding your menus by dish, looking at what's in the ingredients, asking your chefs how that information is prepared, removing items from a menu if necessary. Like, I'm looking at a menu right now, and I have somebody that's allergic to eggplant. I'm just going to say remove eggplant from the entire menu, right? So that person can eat freely through that event. Another person's allergic to pears. So let's remove pears from the entire meeting there. Nobody will miss those things. So, but you have to also still code your menus for everyone else. And somebody who doesn't have an allergy, it's not going to bother them if you're listing, hey, this food contains these ingredients, these top allergens, as well as the ones your attendees have.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:31:42]:
So definitely do that. And if you don't. And I was chatting with my friend Nancy yesterday about this because she's doing an event at school this week for her first for her son's school. And she's actually going to take and document, and I can show you something about that here. Document the ingredients for every item that's being served. This does not need to go on the banquet label, but you can have it in the back of the house on, on, you know, on file if anybody has questions about it. So it's because there's people who have allergies to something besides the top nine. So having this kind of documentation, let me remove my finger on items, is really, really valuable for your attendees to have and for you to have and your banquet team to have.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:32:38]:
Just something right now too is it reminds me the, what I wanted to say is the buffet looks abundant, right? It might look abundant, it looks beautiful, and it's full of a variety of different food options, but for someone with, with dietary restrictions, it can feel like a desert, like there's nothing there for them to eat. And it reminds me of my friend Erica Celiac and the Beast video a couple of years ago, and she's walking through a buffet at a conference and she's like, and she's singing it. She's like, all these foods but nothing I can eat. You know, and because nothing was labeled and, and it looked clearly like, you know, a lot of the stuff had gluten in it. And so. But because nothing's labeled, she's not going to eat it. Right? So we, we really need to think through how we're doing that and how we're communicating to them. On one of her videos that she did similar kind of video, I saw it, I called the convention center because I knew somebody at that convention center and I got her something to eat.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:33:41]:
But why did the event professionals, the event planner of that organization as well as the venues, think through that in the first place? Especially because she typically goes to conferences that are related to the gut and celiac disease, but they had nothing for people with celiac disease on the buffet. Let's think through that. So, and when, as a plan or two like this really starts early, when you're, before you're contracting. Let's put it on our rfp. How do you manage dietary restrictions? What are your standard operating procedures for managing these? Who's responsible for making the labels? Who's responsible for proofing the labels? And it should not be happening at the pre con meeting three days before your event loads in. Right. It should be happening in the proposal level as you're planning your food and beverage throughout the entire process and as you're collecting information from your attendees on what their dietary needs are. It's a lot to think through.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:34:38]:
And it's. And believe me, my Colleen early and I are working on some menus right now. And it's, it's a lot to think through. I have an event in a week and a half that's 45 different food and beverage functions. Actually, I got two more today, 47 different food and beverage functions. And I have to label for every single one of those. And I need to make sure I need to cross reference. Hey, is Colleen going to this lunch or Is she going to that lunch? Especially if there's multiple lunches.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:35:03]:
Like really thinking through all of this, it is a lot, but it's doable and especially if you have your standard operating procedures in place. A little bit off tangent here is that, but relevant to standard operating procedures is that there was a bunch of headlines last week or the week before about how the Washington Hilton was able to donate those 2,000 meals from the correspondence dinner. You know, where the, the, the shooting, the shooting happened in Washington D.C. they were able to donate those 2,000 meals from that event after the fact. And you know what, they were under duress. I'm like, hello? Just the shooting happened in their place. But what it means to me is that they had the procedures in place to know what to do to quote unquote, rescue that food. Instead of throwing it in the trash.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:36:03]:
They were able to give it to the food bank or whatever local partner they have and feed the community because it had not been served yet. It was back of the house, time and temperature controlled. And so they were able to donate that food. And to me, that is one huge kudos to the Washington Hilton for doing that. The culinary team, you rocked it and I would love to talk to you about it, but same thing with dietary restrictions. The problem is not the dietary restrictions. It's our standard operating procedures. So we as meeting professionals, whether you're the venue or you're the event planner, we need to put those sops in place.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:36:43]:
We need to say this is how we do things. This is the way we want things to be done and we need to do them, we need to adhere to them. So Moving into my 17th year of thrive meetings and events as a consultant on this topic as well as seventh year going into the Eating at a Meeting podcast, I want to stop banging my head on the wall. I want to be high fiving you for the work that you're doing and, and saying, hey, we've got this and we want to do this. But my work still continues and I'm thankful for that and I'm thankful for you listening to me talk about this and, and really like work with me on this and, and find solutions for you and all of your attendees because we, every guest matters and every meal matters and, and I want you to utilize that thought process because food and beverage costs a lot and if we think through these SOPs, we can make sure that we're spending our money wisely and safely. So next week is food Allergy awareness month or week Food Allergy awareness week. And so I have four different shows lined up. Monday I'm talking to a group of people from the UK about what they're doing, putting in practices and their event planners.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:38:10]:
There are venues and they are an A destination. And then Tuesday I'm talking to a catering company and Thursday am talking to a catering company and Wednesday is a surprise. So tune in next week for with me eating at a meeting and until then, stay safe and eat well. Thanks, everybody.