331: Planning Safe Travel for Guests w/ Food Allergies: What’s in the New Guide

Tracy Stuckrath [00:00:00]:
Hey, everybody, and welcome to another episode of Eating at a Meeting. I am your host, Tracy Stuckrath, up here in this right hand, left hand corner. I don't know where I am. And I am so excited to bring to you this episode of Eating at a Meeting with my friends, Leanne Mandelbaum next to me and Gwen Smith. Leanne is the founder and CEO of no Nut Traveler, and Gwen is the founding editor of Allergic Living magazine. And we are here to talk about how to plan safe travel for guests with food allergies based on or using their new guide, which is the Airlines and Allergies guide. So, hello ladies.

Gwen Smith [00:00:47]:
Hello. Great to be here.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:00:49]:
Like, I'm so excited to have you. And I mean, we've been doing this for a long time and, and everybody, we were very animated before we got on here and I'm sure we will be animated in, in this conversation as well. But tell me, who, where did what inspired you to create the Airlines and Allergies guide and why Now, Leanne, I know you've been working on Allergy our airline information for 15, 16 years now with no Nut Travelers.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:01:18]:
So, you know, we wanted to give our readers and the population at large a tool where they could easily plan travel with information because knowledge is power. And so we wanted to go a little more in depth. You see guides out there by mainstream media topics, you know, say this is safe. And all they do, quite frankly, is talk about nuts and perhaps what kind of meals are on board, which really doesn't help a lot of people. We want to know emergency preparedness. We wanted to know what specific policies there are. And so we wanted to make a guide that gave people power in their hands. And Gwen pushed me and then I pushed when it was a little bit of tug of war and, you know, going back and forth and making it the best product that, that it is.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:02:27]:
And it's. I'm so grateful for Gwen and Allergic Living for taking this information and taking it 10 steps above what anyone else has done and really make it user friendly.

Gwen Smith [00:02:41]:
And can I add to that for a sec, Tracy? So, you know, I mean, some people will remember back to Allergic Living having a guide in 2018. It was, it was well known comparison chart of airlines. But I think with this and with Leanne, we took it just so many steps further and that was really important and I think Leanne and I really collaborated well. But people need to know this, this is not easy research to get. This took months and months of research and then editing to, you know, like, so it's yeah. Really? I think it was years. Yeah. So, you know, it was.

Gwen Smith [00:03:20]:
It was a long time coming and we're trying to be as thorough and as accurate as we can. So I just wanted to throw that in there too.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:03:27]:
Well, and that's. And I'm going to pull it up on screen here real quick. Like this is. This is Deltas. And that's really, really tiny.

Gwen Smith [00:03:36]:
And that's. That's in the part that is called domestic where we cover us and Canadian Airlines. And then we divided. There were so many airlines. There's 27 now. And it's growing that we also divided it into international as well. Okay. Many more airlines covered in that.

Gwen Smith [00:03:56]:
And they're cross links. So it's very easy to find one from the other at the bottom of the. Yeah. And it scrolls up and down. So you can, you know, it'll say at the top the. Just loosely. The top accommodations offered or not.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:04:15]:
Right.

Gwen Smith [00:04:15]:
Sometimes it's not. And. Yeah. So. And then. And then you can find it from. From there. So that.

Gwen Smith [00:04:21]:
And you've got the international one now.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:04:23]:
Yeah.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:04:24]:
I think Gwen brings up a good point. The not.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:04:27]:
Mm.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:04:28]:
A lot of times someone will fly a particular airline and assume that because they were treated a certain way that that's the airline's policy. But in fact it's not. And so we wanted to have it in black and white. For example, people used to assume that United made PA announcements throughout the plane. And I've even had that done for me. But it's not their call. So I wouldn't want someone to go on the plane expecting that and then be completely aghast or worse, have a confrontation with someone in the flight crew when it's not there. So again, knowledge is power.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:05:06]:
So you may very well that announcement, but that's not their policy. So don't. So plan according to policy. And.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:05:13]:
Right.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:05:14]:
If anything else happens, that's great, but you should know what they say.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:05:19]:
I'll do.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:05:20]:
And oftentimes I tell people to have a PDF of that policy. So take a. If this is the airline that you're going, either get a PDF of their actual policy on their website or go to our guide and take a snapshot of that and keep that on your phone because that tones down any kind of potential confrontation by showing. You'd be surprised how many people don't know their own airline's food allergy policy.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:05:47]:
Reading your stories online, I can totally.

Gwen Smith [00:05:51]:
Yes, yes. We can divine that.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:05:56]:
Other people would be right.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:05:57]:
Yeah.

Gwen Smith [00:05:58]:
Right. And I think that a point as somebody who I live with multiple food allergies myself. I'm allergic to peanuts, soy and shellfish and very much anaphylactic. And, you know, so I know that when you go on a trip, you've got a lot to check out ahead of time with restaurants, with, you know, with trying to figure out. In my case, I'm always wanting to be sure I'm near a health, you know, at least a sizable clinic, if not a hospital, because it could be a problem. So when it comes to the air travel, you know, it's really, we think it's really helpful and I'm already finding it helpful. I'm using the guide myself. But to remind yourself of.

Gwen Smith [00:06:42]:
Well, and in some cases learn what the policies are and to understand that allergic living, you know, largely here. Leanne reached out and reached out to these airlines. Some of them come back and they'll just try to give you a little snippet that's from the website and that's really brief and incomplete. And Leanne had to go back there terrier like, and say, no, no, no. What about that question about do what, what epinephrine do you carry in the, you know, emergency kit? So those were all important questions that you'll see answers to.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:07:18]:
That's huge because. And the story, the epinephrine thing, I mean, going back and bulldogging. Thank you, Leanne, for doing that. I mean, because we've seen by numerous accounts of reactions that have happened on planes and, you know, doctors are searching for pens like, or needles, I should say, and then vials that are unlabeled. Right.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:07:39]:
Well, sometimes there's not vials there.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:07:42]:
Right.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:07:42]:
Yeah, yeah, you could don't articles on that. I mean, there, there's a host, you know, there's a plethora of issues surrounding that again.

Gwen Smith [00:07:51]:
Right.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:07:52]:
You know, so, yeah, I mean, I, Gwen and I often talked during this process, which was really quite arduous, that it was almost like a game of like detective, because sometimes they answer the question, like she said, with like a little link to the website. And it wasn't. That wasn't in the website. If that was what I wanted, I would have gone straight to the website. Right.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:08:15]:
It's not.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:08:17]:
And sometimes they would just answer a completely different question. And so sometimes I actually had like connections on LinkedIn, within the airline, in the communications department. And then finally after like eight or nine back and forths, I'd CC that person. All of a sudden I got an answer to the question. But, like, I really had to resort to some creative Question and tagging on emails.

Gwen Smith [00:08:41]:
We won't go on about the one CEO she was following, airline CEO she was following on LinkedIn where she, she, you know, she sort of cc him. And suddenly the communications person was all over the answers.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:08:55]:
Oh, my gosh, that's awesome. It does work. Yeah, it does work. And sometimes it's you only the only way that you get an answer.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:09:04]:
Right.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:09:04]:
And just going something about some Uncle Ben's rice. One chef was telling me that Uncle Ben's rice is not gluten free. And. And I'm like, what? And long. And I've told the story a couple times. And he's like, well, it's not. And I went back four emails to Uncle Ben. Yes, our glue.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:09:19]:
Our rice is gluten free. And he's like, well, some people can. Yeah. So I'm like, you don't. You have to go and dig. It took me four emails to get it officially.

Gwen Smith [00:09:28]:
Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:09:29]:
Right. Yeah, yeah.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:09:30]:
So this was an airline, by the way, that did everything. Right. So I really wanted to get the information out there and not have to be anecdotal. Right. So it would move them to actually answer the right question.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:09:44]:
Right.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:09:44]:
So that was even more frustrating. Like, if this wasn't an airline that does, you know, that doesn't do all the right things.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:09:51]:
Right. Well, and it's not like we're. You're pointing fingers. You're trying to provide education and information about them, so. So that it helps them elevate potentially their standards and how they do this.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:10:04]:
Someone who's doing it all right. And carrying the right medication and doing training is not answering your questions. Imagine the people who aren't. They're not you. It's very challenging. Gwen is right. So.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:10:16]:
Well, and I noticed on. And just because I had the Delta in the United ones put up, like under Delta, it says medications carried, but under United, there's not a subheading of medications carried. So do I assume that they don't carry that?

Gwen Smith [00:10:30]:
I think that was one. Was it one of the ones that didn't answer questions?

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:10:35]:
I believe United answered.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:10:37]:
They.

Gwen Smith [00:10:37]:
They.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:10:37]:
Yeah, maybe they. Maybe what you're remembering is that they don't carry auto injectors. Both of them don't.

Gwen Smith [00:10:46]:
Right.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:10:47]:
Yeah. It's under. A different section says allergy training slash emergency protocol. Okay.

Gwen Smith [00:10:51]:
Yeah, it is there. Yeah. I'm pretty meticulous about consistency, Tracy, let me tell you.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:10:58]:
Okay.

Gwen Smith [00:10:58]:
Leanne will tell you.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:11:00]:
I would say, in fact, it was both United and Delta because. And I'm. I'm totally 100 sure of this because it, it flagged in my head. Both of them wrote me back on the same day after, after like completely hounding both of them that they carry beyond what the FAA requires and intimating that the vial is beyond what. But, but actually they both carry the vial. So they don't.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:11:26]:
Okay.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:11:26]:
You know, so.

Gwen Smith [00:11:27]:
And it actually says Leanne. They do not include epinephrine in auto injector or spray form, which would be the Nephi. Yeah.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:11:36]:
So again we had to take their words beyond and really investigate what that meant because I think the person writing it maybe thought that that was the gold standard. Whereas we're looking for. Is a different gold standard. We're looking for an auto injector or a nasal spray, something that's easy and you know, to use. So again, we had to take your language and then take a dictionary. In fact, you remember one airline wrote us back and we didn't know one of the abbreviations and we were like come up with all these different like potentials for the abbreviation. And then I was, oh, this is how we refer to the crew member. It's slang.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:12:13]:
I, I forgot, you know, you're not a crew member.

Gwen Smith [00:12:17]:
Right. We're like, what does that stand for? You know, I'm googling. But anyway.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:12:22]:
Right.

Gwen Smith [00:12:22]:
But you do get some of that. I just want to mention one thing though.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:12:26]:
There was a lot for both of.

Gwen Smith [00:12:28]:
Us because, because we've mentioned epinephrine in the medical kit in the. It's called the emk, the emergency medical kit. I want to mention to people that we definitely are for people taking their own, you know, two auto injectors or their Nephi sprays with them. But we've seen a lot of instances where there's been another dose needed or, or where, you know, it was a first time reaction and the person of course isn't carrying an epinephrine because they didn't know they had an allergy in the first place. So you know, just, just a little side there to, to mention that why we want to know.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:13:08]:
There's either even a story of a known person with an allergy that gave herself the two doses and then needed more from the kids. So there many, sometimes people within the allergic population are like, what are you so worried about? Everybody should be caring and it's on you if you don't carry. Well, yes and no. You could need the extra doses. I've had people, not even mistakenly, I've had people's luggage taken away from them. Right. To at gate check and they forget that their epinephrine is in there. And that happened.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:13:40]:
I've had a parent and a child go on different flights, but they were together at the airport and the mom carried the auto injector and the daughter went into anaphylaxis. We, we wrote about this.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:13:51]:
Oh, wow.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:13:52]:
And where was it on the other plane. And, and that plane didn't have.

Gwen Smith [00:13:57]:
Oops.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:13:58]:
Right. Medication. So yeah, car it don't gate check it. Keep it with you.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:14:04]:
Put it in your pocket. Right. Or somewhere on your body somehow. Right. To so that you don't forget it in that, in that luggage.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:14:12]:
What we'll get to this. But pre board so it doesn't get taken away, right?

Tracy Stuckrath [00:14:17]:
Oh, that's true. So what can traveler. How can travelers use this guide? And have, have you seen travelers comment and use this guide before booking a flight? Have you had any comments?

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:14:30]:
I'll take the first answer. Well, so my son was at a professional tennis tournament last minute and he flew out with someone he's been hitting with. And that person was on a strong budget and they took care of everything. And I found out on the way back that they were going to be flying on spirit. And Spirit, because of my work on this guide, is one of the only airlines left in the US that actually sells peanuts. And so he actually didn't believe me because, you know, most of the airlines he's traveled on actually don't sell them. And so literally, I went to our guide, I took a screenshot of our guide and I sent it to him and I'm like, you know, please, yeah, at a minimum, you need to tell the staff because sometimes he feels pretty comfortable on the airlines that don't serve his allergen. And especially if he's with a bunch of people and they're all around him.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:15:27]:
So it was great to have, even for myself, that I went back to this guy. But I think again, Gwen can talk to this as having allergies. Knowing that your allergy is served, knowing what the policy is, is so important. You know, maybe it makes a difference to you that they will create a buffer zone for you in front of maybe still too much a risk for you and you know, ahead of time. Go ahead, Gwen. I know that you have thoughts on that.

Gwen Smith [00:15:53]:
I would just say go back to what I said earlier, which is the complexity of travel when you're traveling with food allergies. And the whole intent of this guide is just to make life easier when you're booking so you can go and you can make an informed Decision about, am I okay with the accommodations on this airline or do I go to that airline? We know from studies that have been done, one that Leanne, a big one, Leanne was involved in, that people are, you know, in our community are picking often first according to what the accommodations are even before price, even before time.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:16:31]:
Oh, wow.

Gwen Smith [00:16:32]:
If then, because it's such an important thing to them to feel, you know, especially if it's a long flight, you want to feel comfortable that you're going to be safe. That's really the intent is to, Is to, you know, I mean, you do. We do have to sort of, you know, run a caveat that airlines, just, like restaurants, can change something on you without letting you know. But we think for the moment, this is very accurate and we will continue to try to update it at least annually. So.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:17:03]:
And just should be very helpful to people to add a little bit on to that. So while I was writing this, as, as we said, it took a few years, and at the beginning, Delta was serving almonds. Right. And a lot of people were having a hard time with that. I happened to have taken a Delta flight to a tennis tournament, and I was chatting with the flight attendant. Oh, we don't serve almonds anymore domestically or internationally. And so then I went back, went through my chain of emails, went back to the source, and sure enough, it had changed. So again, one of the reasons this isn't a written guide, this is a fluid guide, is.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:17:38]:
So we were able to update this before this, but we intend on having multiple additions and having people check back, because airlines do change things, as Gwen just said, and that is the case in point right there.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:17:53]:
Well, they're not serving almonds, but they are serving pistachios.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:17:56]:
I know. I was going to bring that up. Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:18:01]:
Consumed myself. Yeah, but that's important.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:18:04]:
No, again, knowledge is power. We want to empower people to travel more safely. And knowing policy is, as opposed to anecdotal stories, is power. And then you make the decision and then you know what to expect.

Gwen Smith [00:18:21]:
And let me just add to that. You know, I think sometimes people in the bigger picture, the power is also the power to live your life. You know, I, I know what that's like. I get very frustrated when I see people say things like, well, just don't fly. I mean, yeah, who does what, you know, who wants to sign up for a half life? I want to go do things and whatever allergies are manageable. We, we, we just need to, you know, make sure we take some precautions and things. So you know, we do the best we can. We hope airlines will continue to improve.

Gwen Smith [00:18:59]:
I think another little side effect of this is that it puts pressure on the airlines when they, you know, if you see your competitor doing a lot in this regard and this thing is getting well used and, and, you know, and people are starting to know one airline over another for their allergy accommodations, I think it's good encouragement for the others to get on board. You look at what happened in Britain that really happened, and I have to say it happened after a tragedy. It happened after Natasha Laus passed away on that flight to Nice. It was terrible, but, you know, it, it woke up their industry over there and I hope the industry over on this side of the pond wakes up a bit more, too.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:19:43]:
So that was actually a tragedy. Wouldn't it be nice if they woke up without a tragedy?

Gwen Smith [00:19:48]:
Exactly.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:19:48]:
100%, yeah. Now, and that was a question that I was just going to ask you. What's what surprisingly, or what's the biggest difference between International airlines and US North American airlines with the policies?

Gwen Smith [00:20:02]:
They're a bit all over the map, I would say, you know, just before we leave domestic, with domestic, we covered U.S. and Canada. Some people might be surprised that in Canada, on the three Canadian airlines that we profiled, Air Canada, WestJet and Porter, that you can get a buffer zone for. I can't remember if it's. I believe it's just for peanut. But the point is you might not know that that's because their equivalent of the DOT had a ruling. So therefore there's a buffer zone for some. It's only one row, Porter.

Gwen Smith [00:20:42]:
I think they give you three rows, you have to ask for it, but they're fairly accommodating. I think the, some of the differences we see the international ones are a bit all over the map, but I would say in general we found a lot of the British airlines quite accommodating. Even the smaller ones. A lot more announcements being either as part of policy or that the crew has the discretion to do that, even if it's only for part of the plane or the whole plane, depending. When I say part of the plane, it would be sort of the area where the person is sitting that you know, that they might, that they might talk to. But a lot of them were. Were cabin wide on. For instance, British Airways will do a, an announcement for peanut tree nut or sesame.

Gwen Smith [00:21:33]:
Like that. Oh, wow. A lot. Yeah. Yeah. So that's a big difference. We do not see that in North America. So you know that just things like that but then again, you're going to have other airlines that don't make many at all, depending on where.

Gwen Smith [00:21:50]:
Where you're flying. That. That's a bit more UK focused and I think, Leanne, you'll remember, but I believe a couple of the Australian ones were quite good, too.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:21:59]:
Very good. Yeah.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:22:00]:
And they.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:22:00]:
Yeah.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:22:01]:
And they tend. I think they all carry epinephrine, auto injectors, specifically.

Gwen Smith [00:22:07]:
VA certainly does. Yeah.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:22:08]:
Yeah. No, I meant the Australian one.

Gwen Smith [00:22:10]:
Oh, the Australian ones. Yes. Yes, I think you're right on that. So. But any other ones.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:22:18]:
The same way that airlines are, you know, inconsistent in domestic. And it's very inconsistent. You have to, you have to look. That's the chart you have. You have to look because you can't assume even within the same country that the same airline will. A different airline, sorry, will accommodate in the same way. So.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:22:44]:
Right, well. And just stories that you've. The two of you have posted about, you know, on. In airline reactions. Right. Or, you know, getting people getting kicked off planes. It depends on what crew you have.

Gwen Smith [00:22:57]:
Right.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:22:57]:
And, you know, and what city you're in or so variety of things come into play. Even though it might be their policy. And I love the idea of you. The suggestion of taking a printout of here is the policy so that you have your backup as the traveler.

Gwen Smith [00:23:13]:
Yeah. Although the printout online, that's where we end up with the guide too, is because it depends on the airline how thoroughly thorough that is on the website or if it's even been updated.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:23:27]:
Part is great to take a screenshot.

Gwen Smith [00:23:29]:
Yeah. Yeah. So it, it, it does help. I mean, both, I agree with what I said earlier. Both are, are kind of helpful in that regard. For sure.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:23:39]:
What were in, in doing all of this and, and making your phone calls, was there anything that surprised or stood out to you from the findings, either positively or negatively?

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:23:51]:
I was surprised. Spirit served peanuts, quite frankly.

Gwen Smith [00:23:53]:
Yeah. I think we both said. I think I emailed you back. Whoa, what? And I'm like, still.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:23:59]:
I actually think you said to me, well, they don't serve peanuts. And I go back, I think I sent a picture of the peanut M M's that was on their menu. And you're like, oh, like neither one of us knew.

Gwen Smith [00:24:09]:
Right. They didn't serve them, but they sold them. Yeah, sold them. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. So it's a little different. That was a surprise, I think just things like I just mentioned with British Airways.

Gwen Smith [00:24:22]:
I was surprised to see, you know, that their announcement policy covered Sesame too. I mean, you don't see that often and yeah, I mean. And you know, it's just it. I was hoping more people were carrying auto injectors in their emergency kits. I can't remember exactly who, but I know there was JetBlue, British Airways, Alaska, something else. Alaska, I believe. And American. American, Singapore too.

Gwen Smith [00:24:54]:
Yeah. But you know, it. It just wasn't wider than that. You know you would. Right. Hoped that it would be, you know, over half of them and it's nowhere close to that, so. Oh, wow. That was a little surprising in a disappointing way.

Gwen Smith [00:25:13]:
Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:25:14]:
Right. All right. Going to the. The pre boarding thing, Liam, that you mentioned earlier. The in it, the US FAA has the reauthorization act which you were instrumental.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:25:26]:
In helping pre board is a completely different case.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:25:29]:
Different thing. Okay.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:25:30]:
That was brought. But that is important. So I think we should stop here for a second and to go back to allergic living when this happened. So very quick summation is that I noticed a lot of people not being able to pre board on American. They had a policy in writing saying if you had a peanut allergy, you couldn't pre board to make your area safe. I started sending cases to Mary Vargas. We found the right case. It was a person that had multiple allergies.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:25:56]:
Allergic living covered the story and the end result was American Airlines was found in violation. And it is everyone's right in the US or planes heading to the US to pre board to clean their area and make it safe. A lot of people don't even know that they have this right. And there's many reasons to pre board. One is what we talked about earlier, that you don't have your safe medication and safe food. Quite frankly, with delays getting worse and worse every day, as I live near Newark, I've experienced it myself. I was delayed for 10 hours at 1 point. I mean, if.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:26:29]:
If I had a food allergy and I didn't have safe food with me, it would be a huge problem. So right. Getting food and medication on with you wiping down that area, which is just impossible to do thoroughly if you have a screaming child or a general pre board where everyone's like rushing and you know, so just getting those few extra minutes. And a lot of people in the United States I meet all the time, they have no idea that this is indeed their right. And a right we fought really hard for. So I actually when this first happened, I had someone Facebook message me that they were at a gate and the agent was not letting them pre board. And I said, pull up the allergic living article, show them the ruling and Maybe we could give you the link and you could link it when you send out this podcast and actually they change their mind and let them go. So again, knowledge is power and having copies of rulings is important and we can as well.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:27:23]:
And then we can move on to FAA reauthorization, which is more about auto injectors.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:27:29]:
Yeah, no, I love.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:27:31]:
Thank you.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:27:31]:
And it's. Thank you for the two different, the distinction between the two different regulations because that was the. Yeah. Air carrier access. Right?

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:27:42]:
That is air carrier access, yes. By the way, a lot of readers don't make the distinction. There is no ada American disabilities in the sky. It is all under the guise of the Air Carrier Access act.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:27:57]:
And that's really, really important to understand and get. And we're the only one. I mean, no other country really has an ADA regulations for disabilities, is that correct? Especially around food allergies.

Gwen Smith [00:28:14]:
I don't think around food allergies in Canada it's more a human rights issue. So it's sort of similar to some, to, to civil rights. But the problem with that is it's at a provincial level. So it'd be like being at a state level as opposed to. The nice thing about ADA and its relationship here is, is that it's federal. So it covers, you know, it does cover everybody. Right. I don't know what they have in the UK specifically on that.

Gwen Smith [00:28:44]:
It's been more, you know, what we've been dealing with. There has been more the, the airlines themselves and the actions that they've taken. Yeah, yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:28:54]:
Okay. All right, so now let's go to the FAA reauthorization Act, which has to do with, as you said, auto injectors, right?

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:29:04]:
Yes.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:29:04]:
For epinephrine.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:29:06]:
I worked on this for over a decade. Gwen's been writing on it for well past that amount of time. And this is the first time it passed, including language which Gwen and I looked up yesterday just to prep for this. That we hope. And the word is hope, right, that that FAA now takes this and issues. We hope they have a two year shot clock since this passed.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:29:35]:
Okay, we hope.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:29:37]:
Adds to list of suggested medications on planes. Easy to use epinephrine device, meaning an auto injector or nasal spray like Nefi or any other innovations coming down the pike.

Gwen Smith [00:29:53]:
I can tell you what it states. Do you want me to just give you what it states? Okay, so it says, I've just looked it up here on our site. The FAA must consider whether the emergency medical kits include, quote, appropriate medications and equipment that can practicably Be administered for anaphylaxis. That means epinephrine. This is what we said, the first line medicine in treating anaphylaxis.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:30:21]:
So by that use of that word, practicably, if I said it right, we.

Gwen Smith [00:30:26]:
Hope it's a hard one.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:30:28]:
We hope that the vials are not what is considered practicable. I mean, Gwen interviewed a physician many years ago who cut his hand on the vial. Is that Donald Stark? Am I remembering?

Gwen Smith [00:30:39]:
Yes, unfortunately. Passed away since. But he was always very worried about airlines and readiness for anaphylaxis. And he was trying to open a vial and there was turbulence and somebody was having anaphylaxis. And he actually, unfortunately broke the top of the vial. So, you know, it can ha. It can happen. So when he was trying to open it to.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:31:05]:
I also feel like listeners don't work with it.

Gwen Smith [00:31:08]:
Yeah.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:31:08]:
Listeners will remember. And we of course, reported on this in a multitude of articles that the Internet, Instagram, Dr. Real Dr. Mike encountered a reaction on a transatlantic flight and the right concentration of epinephrine wasn't there. And he had to retitrate. And we've had that happen. We've had people find, you know, strange devices where they've had to jerry rig. I had an orthopedic surgeon that actually knew how to jerry rig a device because she was a surgeon, but also knew the concentration to do it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:31:42]:
Wow.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:31:42]:
Because she was.

Gwen Smith [00:31:43]:
Just Gets way too complex for the average.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:31:46]:
Yeah.

Gwen Smith [00:31:46]:
You know, what if a nurse comes forward who doesn't have this background or.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:31:50]:
Listen, I. I interviewed for allergic living, Kelly Hopkins. If you remember, she was a helicopter nurse. Okay. So we're talking about someone knows how to give medication on the fly, pun intended. And she still pulled the plane to borrow an auto.

Gwen Smith [00:32:06]:
Listen, Kimberly Blumenthal, who's a. A quite a senior allergist at Mass General, she pulled the plane because, you know, she preferred to have an auto injector rather than trying to. Trying to do the vial. And, you know, so we've come to this, you know, where we start asking other people, might you have.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:32:28]:
Right. You have a spare EP and you know what.

Gwen Smith [00:32:32]:
Injector on you, please.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:32:33]:
You might say, that's a good plan. The allergy epidemic is growing. You're more likely to have someone. But what if, like, you're Gwen and you're heading to a country that doesn't have epinephrine? Can I replenish or you need a prescription yourself. And that was the thing. The doctors I interviewed actually had her child's auto injector but she still chose to jerry rig this device because he had had a biphasic reaction abroad in the past. So she couldn't be left without another auto injector. It's not like.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:33:01]:
It's not like she was going to steal vial from the plane to replace the auto injector she's using. You know. So these are untenable burdens put on an allergic population for a disease that is, you know, in this century quite ubiquitous. Come on, stock the plane.

Gwen Smith [00:33:19]:
So that's where we coming back to the FAA reauthorization act. We hope they get their act together. And you know, and I mean it's, it's passed, but it has to get into the circular. It has to get done.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:33:34]:
And let's remember allergies are bipartisan. They really don't care where, where you lie.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:33:41]:
Yeah, right, exactly.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:33:44]:
Well, it's behoove all of us, especially with the growing onset of adult allergies. You know, it's not necessarily a child. It could be you that has that bite of shrimp on a plate.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:33:57]:
Always ate a young girl that was coming home and this is. I don't five years ago at least that had did her mom didn't know that she had that nut allergy and they had to. She ate cashews on the plane and they had to do the go back to where they. The destination. It was in Europe.

Gwen Smith [00:34:13]:
Are you she thinking of Patricia Leonard and the Cash kid?

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:34:16]:
Yeah, maybe it was in the UK or Ireland.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:34:20]:
Yeah.

Gwen Smith [00:34:21]:
Okay, so that was the one I covered. That was Dr. Patricia Leonard. I think she's based believe in Texas. But yeah, she was. That's where she happened to be a pediatric allergist on board. Like how lucky for that she was coming back from Dublin.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:34:40]:
I spoke to her and one of the most interesting things that she told me is that when she got back she pulled her partners who were adult practitioners.

Gwen Smith [00:34:48]:
Yeah, that's in my story too.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:34:50]:
Yeah. And they said they wouldn't, they wouldn't have known the dose for a child.

Gwen Smith [00:34:54]:
Yeah, they wouldn't have known the dose for a child like because she had to draw that up. But it was the first. The, the child just grabbed a cashew out of the mixed nuts in first class, popped it in her mouth and next thing you know, then the parents didn't know. What's going on here is they, you know, had a reaction before. We had another case one time where somebody pulled peanuts out of the, you know, the, the seat back. Little kids, they'll get on the floor, they'll be. Anybody who's a parent knows they sticking stuff on their face if you're not careful. So.

Gwen Smith [00:35:30]:
Or you know, you just look away for a minute and look out. So you know, some of these things can happen as first time reactions that nobody's expecting.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:35:38]:
Yeah, well, and just speaking of that, I mean I sent Leanne, texted Leanne a picture of nuts that I found in my, the backseat pocket, right. And like I was putting stuff in there and I just happened to look down, I never looked down and there was a whole bunch of nuts that had fallen out of a bag. And you know, unless you.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:35:58]:
I think that there's a misconception out there that people with food allergies and I actually was just looking at a tweet thread or an X thread the other day about people complaining about those people who are re boarding for allergies and how they're doing it to one up you. They don't need to. It's not a disability really do early you. And I think there is a huge misconception there that because it's an invisible disability, you don't see it unless the person is reacting that they look normal. So they're getting something that you should be getting and people get really, really angry and you have to deal with that as well. And that's where education comes in because oftentimes the flight crew is just as uneducated on the topic. I remember I went early in my day, I was invited as an allergic living writer to go to a Swiss Airlines breakfast. And they were touting themselves at that point as the allergy airline, meaning more hypoallergenic.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:37:04]:
It was, I came to learn it was really not about food allergies. But one of the higher ups who spoke five languages and had a zillion degrees said, leanne, I want to help you with food allergies. I understand allergies because I have hay fever. And I'm like, okay, we have to take a step back. Like allergies are not hay fever. It's not a runny nose. They can be potentially to death. And you know, people have no idea.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:37:29]:
No idea.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:37:30]:
I did a presentation for British Airways early when for their CROs complaint resolution officers. And a couple people came up to me afterwards and British Airways, they used to be the worst, they used to have the worst policy. I know Gwen was just extolling them. I will too. They are phenomenal. But when I gave that presentation, they did none of that. And I had a bunch of executives come to me afterwards and said, I Just didn't know. And right after that, even before Natasha, they did change things.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:37:58]:
Whether or not it was me or the wind was going that way anyway, I have no idea. But again it's education, education of the allergic population that these are your rights and this can actually mitigate your risk because you are talking about those in the back of the seat pocket. Easy risk. Take care of it. Gone.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:38:13]:
Right.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:38:14]:
So I think, you know, part of this chart is. Is educating because a lot of people, even in the food allergy world and within the people that are booking your vacations, they can all use this chart. There's actually you could use it. You know, you may not be the one with the allergy. It may be your best friend, maybe spouse and you're planning your honeymoon. It may be your cousin, it may your wedding and you have guests coming and you. And you want to, you know, get people there safely. There's just so many uses for this.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:38:44]:
It's, you know, and again yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say till I'm blue in the face. Knowledge is power. And we want to put the power so that people can live their fullest lives.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:38:54]:
Right.

Gwen Smith [00:38:55]:
Tracy, just if we didn't mention, because I'm not sure we did the pre boarding for anybody who isn't aware of that is so that you can wipe down your. Your seat area for you know. Exactly. You were mentioning the, you know, for instance tree nut residue or whatever. But you know, if you're going to be sitting there and maybe it's you or your child who has the food allergy just so you can thoroughly wipe the area before everybody else boards.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:39:20]:
It's.

Gwen Smith [00:39:20]:
It's a lot harder to do once other people are on and you know, they don't look at you so odd ever since COVID if they just think you're a germ germophile. But you know, it. It certainly very helpful and it's the right you can use now.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:39:36]:
It puts the power back in your hands. Is it right? You are not reliant on the airline. You are not reliant on the passenger. You can't change if someone was eating your allergen before you that you can get on and proactively clean and mitigate your risk. And that is power and that makes you safer and that makes you able to travel with lessened percentage of getting a reaction. So again, what Gwen said, anxiety. Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:40:02]:
Yeah. Well, I have to. I need to say that. That the peanuts that I found were on a Delta flight. And Delta doesn't Serve peanuts. So it was somebody who had brought on. And yeah. And there was not an announcement or anything, but I just noticed it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:40:16]:
But so it was again because somebody else brought it on and ate them, which is their right to do. Yeah, yeah.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:40:23]:
Allergic Living did an article. You could also Google it a couple years ago. Wasn't one. I think Gwen may have written it or somebody else. That Mayo Clinic found traces of peanuts on. On tray tables in airlines. Even on. Okay.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:40:37]:
Even on airlines that didn't serve it. Right.

Gwen Smith [00:40:39]:
So yeah, they did a little study.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:40:42]:
To pre board no matter what your allergen is. Right.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:40:46]:
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like I'm thinking too, because one of my questions that I sent you guys in advance too is like meeting planners and travel agents, right. I'm like, like there are, there are events that are like if you and I, the three of us were going to go to a conference and we're going to book our own flights. Right.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:41:05]:
But they're.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:41:05]:
What if we want an incentive trip that they're going to have a travel agency book that. Book my flight to that incentive trip. Right. So I want that person to have this guide to understand and know that when they're booking things. Because I'm also very concerned at meeting planners not asking that question before they're booking that ticket. Because it does play, like I said in the head in the description here, like when you go to a meeting, eating starts before you actually get to the meeting. It starts on the plane.

Gwen Smith [00:41:35]:
Especially for an eating pre meeting.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:41:37]:
Right, Exactly.

Gwen Smith [00:41:38]:
It's a whole other podcast.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:41:40]:
Yeah.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:41:44]:
We were talking about this yesterday and wouldn't it be wonderful if you were the event planner and you knew it was an airline that was going to be a long haul and you know, because you've been following us and I'm not sure if we'll get to this in this question, but we can certainly get to it somewhere else. No one with a food allergy should ever take an airline meal. We have a great investigating report on that. And we say it over and over and over in the chart and it's no accident that we say it over and over and over again because we want to drill it into people's heads that it's not safe, no matter the guarantees. So wouldn't it be wonderful if that meeting planner would put together a goodie bag for you on the plane in case you got stuck? There are things. Wouldn't that allergic traveler guest be more willing to use your services again because you made this extra step that probably costs you very Little, but means so very much. Go ahead, Gwen. I know.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:42:42]:
Interrupted you.

Gwen Smith [00:42:42]:
Oh, I just was going to say that I think probably, I'm not sure what they do as event planners with these type of clients. Clients, but I would assume they have some kind of form where they're asking you some questions before they go do their booking. I think it's important that food allergies be one of those and that they be aware of some of the rights and the risks. So the, the, you know, your person may have the right to get on and pre board and, and, and wipe down that area before sitting. Maybe they have a bit of, sometimes a bit of a buddy system, you know, depending if it's adults or kids. You know, sometimes it's a school, like a college trip or something like that. And you know, is there someone who's a good friend who can be sitting next to make, who knows how to use an auto injector or something? You know, just some of those things to, that they really need to be aware of. And as, again, as Leanne says, they could use the guide to sort of, you know, weed out like, oh, I've got a, you know, a young person here who has, you know, severe anaphylaxis.

Gwen Smith [00:43:47]:
Maybe this might be the airline to go with because we could, we could go with either here. So. Right. You know, it might be just a good consideration to have. But I love the goodie bag idea. That would be great.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:43:57]:
Yeah, I do too. I love that. And you know, just from personal experience too, like when you ask for a personalized plate, which, or you know, the specialized plate because you have an allergy, there's nothing on that box that is, that tells the flight attendant anything. Right. It just says my name.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:44:15]:
We need to digress here just for a second. So our most recent allergic living was a pediatric ER doctor from NYU who was flying home and she asked for a meal. The staff was well aware of her allergy and they gave her a meal with shrimp and she almost died. They had to divert the plane. She went to two different hospitals. And there's a couple of pearls in the story. Never take an airline meal, not only because of what you're talking about. And I'll get back to that because it doesn't even matter if there is a label.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:44:49]:
But let's just get back to the fact that flight attendants are highly intelligent individuals, have so much responsibility these days and food allergies is just not necessarily especially of education. If you read our chart on what crew is again, you get, you get the Stark knowledge that most crews are not being trained on what anaphylaxis is. We're lucky if they know where it is in the kit we are even British Airways, they have the auto injector. But when Natasha was dying, I'll never forget that the junior doctor who was treating her asked a crew member to drop a vial of epinephrine. And the crew member said, I'm sorry, I am not able to do that. But the tragedy was that most likely British Airways already carried auto injectors and they had one. And it's not enough to have it. You need to know that it's there, what it's used for.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:45:48]:
And to give someone in emergency, even if you yourself are not allowed to use it, you need to know where it is. And if you read our guide, you will see that this is not happening. So we have a lot of work to do there. But this flight attendant made a mistake and gave the wrong meal.

Gwen Smith [00:46:04]:
And to me, this was the woman with shrimp. Yeah, yeah.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:46:07]:
There is no meal up in the air that is worth that. None. I mean nobody dined on shrimp on any airline worldwide, even in the best class and said I can't wait to dine there again and have their shrimp dishes. It's just we did an investigative report and the FDA told me that it's the same thing as when you go out to a restaurant. The label can be incomplete. So allergic living totally to viewed someone who had pasta with red sauce sent to us by Dr. Anya Nowak at NYU and this patient of hers, it wheat, it said egg, it said milk, it said nothing about tree nuts. And guess what? It doesn't have to even it's the top eight and now we label for in the United States.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:46:52]:
But it didn't have to say it and she went into anaphylaxis so those labels don't have to be complete. So a flight attendant may well intentionally tell you, I mean that's not a word. I don't know how I said that. But they may tell you that it's okay and show you the label. And even if they show you the label, you shouldn't take it. And you could, you could talk as yourself flying with a food allergy.

Gwen Smith [00:47:17]:
Well, I don't take the food. I mean some people will, you know, we do our best to say in the guide we say what they do make available, but we remind people that it may, may not be, be safe. But we do say, you know, for instance, if you're dairy allergic or gluten free, depending on Whether you're as worried as someone else about cross contact. You know, they do offer some meals, but again, these are in big, they usually mass produced in, in, you know, big catering companies and.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:47:54]:
Right.

Gwen Smith [00:47:55]:
You know, they could be doing more. That's, that's almost more your area, Tracy, to, to prevent the cross contact. But the question is, are they. And if they would start doing that and could communicate that then, you know, we might be a, you know, and then we could get labels that were trusted. We might be somewhere along the lines where we could trust. But we are very far from that and. Right.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:48:18]:
100%.

Gwen Smith [00:48:19]:
Yeah. You know, so it's, it's an issue and that's why I don't trust the meal. It does get tricky sometimes when you're traveling as, as Leanne and I have discussed in past, it's easier on the way out, but on the way back, you know, that's sometimes when it's a little harder to get your safe meal to go because you're, you know, you're out and about, but you can usually go no matter where you are and, and get some safe food from a grocery store and make yourself a little something to, to take along. But, or, or take something non perishable.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:48:53]:
That's. When we traveled to Africa, we brought cereal and yes.

Gwen Smith [00:48:59]:
Yeah.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:49:00]:
We asked for milk on the plane and so just to be prepared again, delays.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:49:07]:
Right.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:49:07]:
And you know, for the fact that you shouldn't be eating on the plane. So people get upset for a certain ticket and they're not getting their meal. Don't get upset about this. The trip is about memories, the destination. It's not about.

Gwen Smith [00:49:22]:
Absolutely. I'm not there on the plane for the fine dining and well, this is.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:49:28]:
Not without the allergies. It's not fine diet. I don't care how good they say they are. Yeah, it's, it's a simple risk versus reward. And just to go back to the gluten free and the vegan. The FDA actually told me that was a completely made up term and they don't regulate it at all. So I have people sending me pictures of meals on planes with egg, with butter. Well, that's why up term.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:49:52]:
And so if somebody does get sick from that vegan meal, no one's responsible because there's no onus on them.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:50:00]:
Right. Well, because. And vegan is not deemed a medical condition. You know, but you may think if.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:50:07]:
A meal is vegan that it's safe for someone with a dairy allergy.

Gwen Smith [00:50:10]:
A lot of people we've had stories of people in restaurants, you know that, that, that dairy vegan did not mean dairy free or didn't mean, mean egg free usually means egg free, but occasionally.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:50:25]:
Yeah, that woman in the UK that had the anaphylactic reaction going to a vegan restaurant and she was allergic to dairy, right?

Gwen Smith [00:50:35]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:50:37]:
It's mind boggling. Okay, we could just talk about this forever and I would love to, but I think you guys have provided such a great resource here and I will make sure that I share it out to all my meeting planner friends, et cetera, and travel agents because it's, I mean, it's a good start to figure out how you should travel. Right.

Gwen Smith [00:50:58]:
And I think it's at the booking stage, you know, where it's really critical and like I say, if that simplifies the rest of the travel because there are other things that you're going to need to check out.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:51:10]:
Right.

Gwen Smith [00:51:11]:
Fantastic. You know, like that's why we did all that work, so that people would have this and be able to take a quick look before they go, say, okay, what works for the days I'm going and the time I'm going? But these look like maybe my top two, three airlines on this trip to Europe. So that'd be great.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:51:31]:
Yeah, right.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:51:32]:
I also think that important to know again what airlines are not doing. It may surprise you that an airline like Emirates that is known for luxury, we'll do nothing. And, and in fact, I think Gwen and I were discussing this. This is because lottery is often associated with the business class experience which is associated with the warm nuts. It just.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:51:58]:
Oh, yes. Yeah.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:51:59]:
And I believe when I want to make sure to your audience that even if what we've put in the chart is about nuts, that's because that's all the airline has in their policy. We certainly asked about all food allergies and we certainly used food allergy. But I think the reason that nuts get so much attention is because in the air nuts are synonymous with, you know, or linked to a business class experience. And so often you'll encounter more in the air than you would on the ground, with the exception of, of baseball parks. So please know that, you know, we weren't making this chart nut specific. It we really do want all airlines to start respecting all food allergies. And again, as Gwen said earlier, we hope they'll take a look at what some of their competitors are doing and also look at some of the research like the study I was involved in out of Northwestern and see that people are choosing based upon good policies. What medications are carrying that food allergy? Consumers are growing.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:53:02]:
We're growing globally and you can make money off of us. And we are loyal customers in a.

Gwen Smith [00:53:10]:
World that's incredibly loyal. Yeah, yeah.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:53:12]:
While people may not be repeat flyers because they're looking for this special and that special, we tend to stay safe within the realm of which airlines are treating us well. So use us for that.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:53:26]:
Right, exactly.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:53:27]:
That are fair and easy to promulgate throughout your fleet. One day you're not going to have a choice. I'm here to tell you that one day I will just be stepping off soapbox because there will be an. The epidemic is growing. We don't have good reasons. And the business class travelers will have allergies and it will then dictate what the policies are. We're seeing that trickle in slowly. So I think those airlines that do it right now are forward thinking and have their finger on the pulse.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:53:55]:
What do you think?

Gwen Smith [00:53:56]:
1 Absolutely they are. And I do think there are signs of things growing. I mean, I was surprised a little bit to the number of domestic airlines adopting pre boarding. I mean, I know there was a ruling, but they don't always jump up. And you know, there's, it's not guaranteed that way but, but a lot more are. And the, the ruling, just by the way, is supposed to be all food allergies generally, but not all airlines will offer it for all. So again, that's where the guide will specify whether it's general or more specific. But yeah, I mean, I think, you know, we just have to keep pushing and you know, the fact that we can get some policy information is great, but we still need so much more standardization in this industry when it comes to allergies.

Gwen Smith [00:54:56]:
This is, as Leanne's saying, this is a major, you know, epidemic of disease. It's not catchy, but it's, it certainly seems almost like it is the way, the way the numbers of people. Huh?

Tracy Stuckrath [00:55:09]:
Right. Yeah, we're definitely not recruiting and yet we're growing.

Gwen Smith [00:55:12]:
No, no, it's already joined our club is sort of the right standard. But you know, we, I mean, doing this work, I'm sure we all do this like it's stunningly, you know, it's the moment I say what I do for, you know, as, as, as work and as a passion. The number of people I meet who have the, you know, exact same concerns, something with allergies. So try to help those folks.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:55:39]:
Well, and I did an event, I managed food and beverage for an event last month. I think it was last Month or in June. And I had, we had 128 people who had dietary restrictions. And I had one man come up to me multiple times while I was there. Shellfish allergy. And he had emailed me before, he's like, thank you. Nobody has ever taken my allergies seriously before. And he was in his late 50s, early 60s.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:56:04]:
And he said to me multiple times to my face, thank you so much for taking such concern about this. And I mean that's 100. I mean he's one of 128 people out of, I think it was a conference of 1200. That's 10% of your, of your group. And they probably not even all the ones that told you. Right. So it is.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:56:26]:
Think of the immense gratitude you get for something that probably didn't you very long to do. And that's what I'm saying. Not just to event planners, but to anyone who holds anyone in any sort of gathering whatsoever where there's food.

Gwen Smith [00:56:39]:
Yeah, right, yeah.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:56:40]:
Which is everything from birth to funeral. Right. Everything about meals. And you can do this much and change somebody's whole perspective and give them the gift of being able to safely eat amongst their peers or friends or even family. And so educate yourself. Share this guide. Share this guide with family members that have allergies that may not be aware of it. You know, no matter what profession you're in.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:57:10]:
I think everyone could benefit from this.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:57:12]:
I'm going to put those, the links to them at least I'll put one of them up here. Just so it's. Because it's a long link but so. And you can just go to allergicliving.com and look for the airlines allergies guide and get the links.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:57:28]:
Well, if I'm not mistaken, Gwen, there's a link at the end of it to the international guide.

Gwen Smith [00:57:33]:
Absolutely.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:57:35]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I have both of them. I can, I'll post them both so everybody can get them. But.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:57:44]:
Look for the Mills article because you know, it's, it's, it's great that I'm up here telling you not to take the meal but read what the FDA has to say.

Gwen Smith [00:57:51]:
Yeah. And we do link to that through, you know, throughout the guide at the end where we often asterisk meals that they are offering and we say that at the end that we don't recommend taking the meal but we tell people what's offered because people like to make their own decisions, so.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:58:10]:
Right, well. And you know, if you've got a long haul flight, you've got, got to figure out how you can do and what you're going to do and you, what you're going to eat. If it's 16 hours in a plane, you know, you need to figure something out. So it's really important.

Gwen Smith [00:58:23]:
You know, if you're gluten free, that might be a different story because maybe what you're being served is under 20 ppm. And maybe that's okay for you if you have celiac disease, but you know, we don't recommend that either. But just saying, you know, if, if it's in your comfort zone, we'll leave it to you.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:58:41]:
Yeah, I just want to not encourage people to figure out.

Gwen Smith [00:58:45]:
No, I don't.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:58:46]:
Because even in, in first class when they put that role, it goes back to, doesn't it? Think about fresh label. It could be a gluten fill. It actually, could actually have gluten in it and the airline may not, may not know. So yeah, allergy or intolerance. My steadfast advice is don't take the meal.

Gwen Smith [00:59:08]:
And my best advice is get to that, you know, grocery store. Get your non perishable to take with you. And, and, and you will, you will have it even for the return flight, even for the great long flight.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:59:19]:
Just remember all the meals that you either cooked yourself or made in that country and all the ones you're going to have when you land. Even if it's a 16 hour flight.

Gwen Smith [00:59:29]:
Right.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:59:29]:
It's less than a day. It does that really. Is it worth a reaction? No, I'm sure talk to the ER doctor who herself didn't know not to take that meal. Was it worth it, was it worth it to have an airline meal? Right. It's just, it's, it's not.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:59:48]:
No, it's not.

Lianne Mandelbaum [00:59:49]:
Yeah, but if you're not educated to what the loopholes are and the lack of training, then you might make a different decision. So again, we want people to make decisions with knowledge.

Tracy Stuckrath [01:00:00]:
Yeah.

Gwen Smith [01:00:01]:
Informed. Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [01:00:03]:
Okay. I want to do a couple of rapid fire questions.

Lianne Mandelbaum [01:00:06]:
When you're booking your, when you're booking.

Tracy Stuckrath [01:00:08]:
Your ticket, are you a window or aisle seat or middle.

Lianne Mandelbaum [01:00:11]:
I'll let Gwen take this.

Gwen Smith [01:00:13]:
I don't think it really matters. I'm an aisle person. I know some of the allergists will suggest the, the window saying under the sense that you're a little more separated from the aisle. But I like if, in case I get ill, I prefer to be on the aisle for easy access to the restroom and not feeling locked in. If somebody's eating something on a big, you know, depending on whether you're in a big jet with wide banks or, or in a smaller one with, with three. But I don't, I don't. I prefer the aisle to not get locked in next to someone's food, but that's me. And somebody else may say I like the window because I feel a little more in control.

Gwen Smith [01:00:55]:
So I don't think it's a big point.

Tracy Stuckrath [01:00:58]:
I want my window when I'm on the red eye. Right. So I can lean my head on my pillow. Yeah, exactly.

Gwen Smith [01:01:04]:
You can snooze.

Tracy Stuckrath [01:01:05]:
Otherwise.

Lianne Mandelbaum [01:01:08]:
You'D be surprised what residue is.

Tracy Stuckrath [01:01:11]:
Right, yeah. All right, so what is your one snack that you pack for a flight? What's the first snack you pack to take on a flight?

Gwen Smith [01:01:17]:
Me, I pack. Okay. Well, Leanne goes more the non perishable route, I think. I like to take a fresh deli sandwich from the, you know, places that I know that are safe and, and I can get served safely and, and have something like that because I like it could be anything. But the idea is that it's something substantial because it's going to have to hold you often for several hours.

Tracy Stuckrath [01:01:45]:
Yep. Leanne, what's your snack?

Lianne Mandelbaum [01:01:48]:
It's definitely cereal or granola bar or some sort of chip or, you know, something he likes. And in fact, when we went to Africa, he was younger, so it was a little easier, I would say, but I didn't want him to feel bad about not having the meal. And one of the things we don't have a lot of in our house is sugar cereal. So I picked one of the snacks that are safe but that are kind of junky that we don't have every day. So it almost was like a treat. So I think that parents, children especially, like, especially if you're a house, that. And I think most people don't want to shove junk all day. And it's some retreat to have some of those allergy safe, yet not necessarily healthy snacks.

Lianne Mandelbaum [01:02:29]:
I mean, I think there's something to consider there, especially if you're traveling with children and you don't want them to be like, upset that their brother. He couldn't have cared what we were eating. He got his Cocoa Pebbles and we got milk.

Tracy Stuckrath [01:02:41]:
All right. Yep. So you can have cereal. Yeah, that works. And a spoon. Right? Bring your own spoon for that case.

Lianne Mandelbaum [01:02:48]:
Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [01:02:48]:
Well, ladies, thank you so much. I really, really appreciate it. And anybody who's listening, if you want to connect, both Leanne and Gwen are Quite active on LinkedIn, so you can find them easily there. And where's the one with Gwen's name on there. There's there that is. So find them there. But also just make sure you're looking at this, this guide. It's very, very comprehensive.

Tracy Stuckrath [01:03:12]:
It's very well done. Thank you both very much for doing all of that work and being a bulldog in your, in your phone calls.

Lianne Mandelbaum [01:03:18]:
And follow the links within the guide to some of the articles.

Tracy Stuckrath [01:03:20]:
Yes, yes, definitely. Yeah. You, you have a plethora of articles on there with lots of great information. You're welcome, Gwen.

Gwen Smith [01:03:28]:
Thank you. Great to charge.

Tracy Stuckrath [01:03:30]:
Likewise.

Lianne Mandelbaum [01:03:31]:
Hate this life saving information.

Tracy Stuckrath [01:03:33]:
Yeah, it is 100 life saving information. All right, everybody, that is it for today and this week. There was two episodes this week. Next week we're talking about food, food waste again, surplus food and how to protect it. So. And. And serve people. Yes, exactly.

Tracy Stuckrath [01:03:51]:
Until then, stay safe and eat well. And ladies, stay on with me for just a second. All right, thanks, everybody. Thanks for listening to the Eating at a Meeting podcast where every meal matters. I'm Tracy Stuckrath, your food and beverage inclusion expert. Call me and let's get started right now on creating safe and inclusive food and beverage experiences for your customers, your employees, and your communities. Share the podcast with your friends and colleagues at our Eating at a Meeting Facebook page and on all podcast platforms. To learn more about me and receive valuable information, go to tracystuckrath.com and if you'd like more information on how to feed engagement, nourish inclusion, and bolster your bottom line, then visit eating Dot.