324: When Venues Can Learn from a Gluten-free Bakery in a Shared Space

Tracy Stuckrath [00:00:00]:
Foreign. Hey everybody and welcome to another episode of Eating at a Meeting. I am your host, Tracy Stuckra. But I'm excited to introduce you to Ashley Orr. That's right, here she is the baker and owner of Sweet Nothings Bakery and Cafe in Raleigh, N.C. and sweet nothings is a hundred percent gluten free bakery that is operating out of a shared kitchen space. And that's really why I wanted to talk to her today because you've heard me on a couple of episodes ago when I had a couple, an attorney and two chefs talking about, you know, one convention center saying that we're not going to feed the celiacs and a meeting planner trying to find us something to feed these guests at her event because of that. So we're, I'm going to talk to Ashley about how she does this and, and how we can learn as event professionals and venues from her and what she does.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:01:01]:
And I'm excited to see that. Actually we already have five people watching us at like the as the minute started. So you are a hot topic, my friend.

Ashley Orr [00:01:10]:
Awesome.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:01:11]:
Well, and, and I just met you last week, right?

Ashley Orr [00:01:14]:
Yeah, I think it's literally been a full seven days that we've known each other.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:01:20]:
And so, and just so you know, her bakery is located in the Little Blue Bakery in is. Did I say that right?

Ashley Orr [00:01:27]:
Little Blue Baked House.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:01:29]:
Specifically Baked House. Thank you. In Raleigh. And that is owned by my friend Allison Vic. And when Ashley was making her pastries in there and I'm like, wait a minute, I need to talk to you. I'm like, how are you doing this? What are you doing? And so, and I said, can you be on the show next week? So that is how we're here. So I was just going to cut to the chase. Ashley, you.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:01:52]:
And this is the first question I ask you. I'm like, you are a gluten free baker in a shared kitchen space. And my first question was like, how do you do this? And do you have people who are celiac that buy your food and how do you guarantee it? So how do you make gluten free pastries in a kitchen that is not certified gluten free?

Ashley Orr [00:02:14]:
So I actually get that question so much and I totally understand it because I myself would have that question. But one of the main things is honestly sanitization, making sure that things are being cleaned and sanitized, sanitized around the clock. So when I get into the bait house, I sanitize all of my equipment, my station, anything in my work area as I'm baking And making things. I'm still cleaning, sanitizing. And then at the end of the day, I repeat that whole process over again. So it's a lot of constant cleaning, washing your hands. And another huge part is the people I work with in the bakehouse. They're absolutely phenomenal when it comes to understanding gluten free and the fact that.

Ashley Orr [00:03:00]:
That we don't want to have any issues where there's cross contact. And so that's been a huge, huge help.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:03:08]:
That's great. And I think you also pointed out that there's. There's four ovens and you. And you only. You basically use the oven on the top. Right. Not that that needs to be that specific, but you also all use your own equipment. So you're not using shared equipment.

Ashley Orr [00:03:23]:
Yes, all of my equipment, my baking stuff is all mine. The. Even the fridge, freezer, all of that stuff. Stuff. The only thing that we do share are the ovens. And as you said, I use that top right one. And it is our old girl. She's.

Ashley Orr [00:03:40]:
She's an old oven, very temperamental. So a lot of people don't actually like to bake in that one, which worked out perfect for me because there's literally never anyone in there. So it's my own little personal oven kind of that I get to keep gluten free.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:03:55]:
Right. And then I liked at the front of the house, you know, where you sell all your pastries, each one of you has your own display case. So there is. Now your stuff is never in a case with the other pastries.

Ashley Orr [00:04:10]:
Yeah. So we have our completely own refrigerated case that has its own, like closed off doors and everything. At no one point are they touching. They're sitting next to each other. But the product itself, there's never any touching or anything.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:04:26]:
Yeah. And so when she says they're sitting next to each other, it's like the. The refrigerated containers are sitting next to each other and there's no contact of the pastries themselves. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I love. And they're.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:04:38]:
Each one. I love it too, that each one of them is branded separately. So they know. So you know which one that you're pulling out of and which company you're buying from, so that if somebody's walking into that pastry shop, they know to look for yours. And you have signage on there too.

Ashley Orr [00:04:54]:
Yeah, yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:04:56]:
That's awesome. So besides gluten free. Okay, so let's go back to this. How did you. And what inspired you to become a baker and why is the focus on gluten free?

Ashley Orr [00:05:08]:
Honestly, I've had a huge passion for baking like my whole entire life. I always grew up baking things in the kitchen with my mom and grandma. And it just really made me love the creativity behind it because you can always create something new. And the shift in focus on gluten free has been because I myself am gluten free. I have an allergy, so I can't eat it. And with that being said, once I found out, so I found out in 2019, let me reverse found out in 2019 that I had a gluten allergy. So I had went a long time with eating gluten and having serious stomach issues and health issues, but not knowing that was the root cause behind all of it. And so I didn't really understand what gluten was.

Ashley Orr [00:06:00]:
I didn't understand how to find the products or what was gluten free versus what wasn't. And so that was a whole thing in itself. But upon doing all of that, I didn't really find much that I liked and the few options that are out there and it was very hit or miss and it was one of those things I was missing like a cinnamon roll. So all these like nice baked goods that I used to be able to have that I now couldn't. And it just made me go, you know what, I can do this. I'll figure it out. And that's basically what I did. And that's how sweet nothing's come to be.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:06:39]:
Well, nice. And you and I want to. We had this conversation just before we came on Live, like, because some people might say, well, you are. You have a gluten allergy. And so that's different than celiac disease. And, and it's probably a little bit different than non celiac gluten sensitivity as well. So can you talk a little bit about that without getting into the gory details?

Ashley Orr [00:07:06]:
Yeah, of course. So I do understand it is different. I am severe myself and each allergy is different, but I am very sensitive to it. I cannot even eat something if it's been cross contacted and God forbid I accidentally ingest gluten in itself. I get very violently sick and ill. Usually lasts for about a week, so not fun at all. But I do understand where a lot of people who are celiac or you know, stuff like that, they feel a little bit more concerned because I'm not technically celiac, but I have so many friends who are and I myself being put through being gluten basically that I don't Want to be sick. I don't want to feel like that.

Ashley Orr [00:07:57]:
And I definitely don't want other people to feel like that either.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:08:01]:
Well, no, and. Exactly. And being gluten is not fun. You know, it's a variety of different challenges that come with being gluten. That, yes, it is definitely don't want to talk about on air, but. So are there any other allergens or ingredients that you avoid in your, in your pastries?

Ashley Orr [00:08:19]:
I wouldn't necessarily say avoid in all of them, of course, gluten being the top one. Anything associated with gluten. So malt. You know, I stay away from anything like that. But another thing we do is we offer vegan and dairy free products. So we kind of can cover a range of things. It's really just all of them, what the customer, client is looking for. But we usually keep vegan items rotating in and out of our case.

Ashley Orr [00:08:50]:
And with those, we make sure that there's no nuts in them. So it, it really just depends on the product and what the customer's looking for.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:08:59]:
Well, and I'm gonna see if I can do this. Here's a picture of your pastries in the, in the container. Right. And I love how, if you can, I'm gonna zoom in really closely here. It's. This is my cheating way to do this. That you put like, it says coffee cake, cookie, eggs and dairy are, you know, listed. So that's your contained statement basically on that, right? Yep.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:09:21]:
And then like that other one, it says eggs, dairy, almonds and soy. So. And so you're clearly identifying the top allergens in your food, you know, not just the gluten free aspect of it.

Ashley Orr [00:09:35]:
Oh, yeah. And we, we even identify if there's corn because a lot of people have corn allergens. So it's really looking at those top nine big allergies and making sure that if any product contains those, they are literally labeled and listed somewhere that the customer can see it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:09:54]:
Okay, awesome. You have a fan here. Madison Guthrie.

Ashley Orr [00:09:58]:
That's our girl.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:09:59]:
Yeah. Thanks for tuning in, Madison. And if any of you have questions for Ashley, please put them in the chat. Wherever you're, wherever you're watching. I've got Margaret and Michigan Gluten free gal, as well as marginally 42 watching on Instagram over here too. So if you have any questions, please let us know. Know. Okay, so I want to, I want to step back a little bit more because of, I love the, your protocol on that, but you're cleaning and you're sanitizing Every day.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:10:29]:
And then I, I saw you wrapping up dough for your. What were those the scones you were making. Right. And, but so one, I want to clarify too. You said you have your own fridge.

Ashley Orr [00:10:40]:
Oh, yeah, I have my own fridge and my own freezer. My whole entire station is mine. And like I said before, the staff and other people I work with, they are very understanding about making sure that nothing with gluten even really goes near my station.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:10:59]:
Well, and that's. I think that's important. And our. We've got little blue bake house here giving you high high fives. Hello, Little blue bake house Allison. How. Hello, my friend. So, I mean, that's really important because you have that great relationship with Allison who owns the bakehouse as well as the other people who are in the other bakers that are in there.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:11:20]:
And I know that Allison does some gluten free macaroon macarons. I don't know how I say that. Right. She'll kill me. But, you know, so I think that's important to have that good relationship with them. And was that something that you have. Have the bakers changed since you've been there?

Ashley Orr [00:11:38]:
Honestly, no. They're the sweetest people ever. Like, I absolutely adore where I work in the bakehouse, but it even going into it, they all had their understanding of what gluten was, you know, making sure that things weren't being cross contacted and all of that stuff.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:12:00]:
Well, that's good. So, I mean, I think that's an important. I'm typing in over here. I've got our Blake Burgess and Forever Simply Me has joined us on Instagram as well. If you have any questions for Ashley, let us know. But I think, you know, when you're talking about a big commercial kitchen, right. A convention center or a hotel or even a restaurant, you know, how do you. How can, how can they learn from what the relationship that you have with Allison and the other bakers in the little blue bake house.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:12:31]:
In managing that allergen, that cross contact.

Ashley Orr [00:12:35]:
Honestly, the biggest step is communication. You have to communicate with the people that you're working with. That, I mean, honestly, with anything. I was going to say with gluten stuff, but it really goes. For anything that you're doing in a kitchen, there always needs to be good communication put forth from everyone because that's how you do avoid some of these situations. Like if you told the cashier that you couldn't have xyz, but that cashier didn't tell the cook, then you're going to get cross contaminated. So.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:13:12]:
Yeah, well. And I think that. Okay, Allison throws in here. Woohoo. Ashley's stuff is incredible. And I did. I had a couple of things. I had your pop tart and I had your blueberry scone, and they were both delicious.

Ashley Orr [00:13:25]:
Well, thank you.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:13:26]:
You're welcome. I mean, I think. And that's because when you're. We get. We get venues. And I said it at the very beginning of the show, there's a venue, you know, that has convention centers that said we will not feed the people who are celiac. Right. And so that's leaving this meeting planner to find food and beverage off site for this.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:13:45]:
For this group of people. I think it was 10 people. But I mean, you're in a very, like, how big is that kitchen space? I mean, what, double the size of my bedroom?

Ashley Orr [00:13:55]:
At least 2,000 square feet.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:13:57]:
Right. So, you know, thinking a convention center or a hotel that has multiple, you know, kitchens. It's doable.

Ashley Orr [00:14:06]:
Yeah, for sure. It's absolutely doable. It really boils down to how bad they want it. They want to serve that clientele because, like, with the bakehouse, I have my own station and space that is fully gluten free. Nothing that contains gluten will ever go in that space. And I feel like if other places did that where they could just dedicate one section, regardless of where it be, if they could just dedicate a specific space, then they would feel a lot more comfortable with being able to serve that clientele.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:14:41]:
Right. And the fact that you, you know, you come in and you clean in the morning beforehand, and then you clean throughout the entire process, because there's that. The learning when you're taking. When you're learning about gluten and. And food safety and things like that, the flour could potentially stay in the air for 48 hours. Right. If you're baking lot of things, but, you know, you're constantly cleaning your. Your equipment throughout the day while you're making.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:15:11]:
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Ashley Orr [00:15:12]:
And not just wiping things down. Like things are being washed, sanitized, all those good things. And another thing too is once we're done baking something, it immediately is going into a container that is airproof. Like, it's got that tight airlock to it. And it either goes into our fridge or we'll sit it and then maybe put something on top of it. But it's multiple steps to make sure that there's no sort of gluten getting on the product.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:15:42]:
Okay, awesome. All right, Madison just came back on here. And said, you got to try the ooey gooey bars. All right. Madison in Raw.

Ashley Orr [00:15:49]:
Yeah, those have been a huge hit. Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:15:54]:
What would you like consumers to know and consumers to know about your products as well as those who have celiac that are potentially concerned about this in educating them? And if Madison or Alison, if you have celiac, let me know. And because that would be, you know, how do you work with it or how do you feel about this and in doing this And Ashley, how do you talk to your customers about it?

Ashley Orr [00:16:19]:
So I tell them the honest truth that I do work in a shared kitchen space and there is always a risk for something coming in cross contact. That's just the very honest truth. I will never lie or put on a face to make a sale because I want people to feel comfortable and make their own decisions. But we, I do truly go through so many different steps to ensure that that product never comes in contact with gluten and that the product itself is gluten free. A huge way I've really started doing that is I make my own flour blend. I don't buy gluten free flour from the store. And I think I can't remember what company it was, but I recently found out one of the gluten free flours actually has removed wheat starch, which isn't celiac safe. So it's things like that.

Ashley Orr [00:17:13]:
Just going that extra step, making those things myself to really ensure I know what I'm putting into my products.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:17:23]:
Okay, that's awesome. All right, so Madison has a question for you. What are this? What are some baked goods you've seen in the area that aren't gluten free that would you would like to create soon?

Ashley Orr [00:17:35]:
Well, we have. So Andrew from Little our Blue Ox is right across for us and I see him make donuts and croissants all day long. And that is one recipe that we have been try and true testing, trying to find one that we actually like. We do have a good cake donut recipe that is pretty good. But I want a nice yeasted kind of very similar to a Krispy Kreme doughnut.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:18:06]:
Oh, my gosh.

Ashley Orr [00:18:07]:
Yeah. Like imagine a gluten free Krispy Kreme donut.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:18:12]:
Right.

Ashley Orr [00:18:13]:
Everyone would be so happy.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:18:14]:
Yeah, they're so they just melt in your mouth.

Ashley Orr [00:18:17]:
Exactly. And that's hard to find a lot of times with gluten free. Especially gluten free is all of. It's huge on texture stuff. It's very hit or miss on the textures. And that is one of the struggles we've been having with making our own doughnut. But it's so much fun trying to create new stuff, especially things that I myself haven't had in seven, eight years and I just really, really want. So I'm going to find a way to make it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:18:45]:
Well, even my mom made a cake and we have. We use a certain cake mix, gluten free cake mix that we've loved. But I think even the procedure on making gluten free products plays into it as well because the cake she most recently made came out very dense and typically it's not dense. And so. Yeah, you know, and it's like she's like, I don't want to bake any other cake. This is a great cake. But this time it came out really dense and maybe she over mixed it or. Or did something with it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:19:16]:
So it. I think the technique with it, making gluten free also plays into it. So I commend you for kind of figuring that out. All right, Allison has a question for you. What is the biggest challenge you've encountered thus far in your business as it relates to being gluten free?

Ashley Orr [00:19:31]:
Honestly, getting people to give me a try, like, as sad as that might sound, that has honestly been one of our biggest struggles is gluten free stuff isn't really that great. There are very few options that I personally, in my own opinion, have enjoyed. They have a gritty or dry texture or they just fall apart and crumble. So I've been huge on, like, we were just talking about the textures and the technique on how to get it. And I have been able to figure out how to make gluten free stuff tastes not gluten free. And I think I feel comfortable saying that statement because I had so many people who have tried my stuff, not even knowing that it was gluten free. And it immediately become like one of their top favorite items. Or when I told them that it was gluten free, they were blown away because they genuinely had no idea.

Ashley Orr [00:20:27]:
But yeah, that's just been one of the biggest struggles is having people have that stigma towards it and how it tastes and not really giving us a shot.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:20:36]:
Yeah, well. And I heard, overheard a woman, I don't remember where I was, she's like, my son, she said, my son will not touch anything that's gluten free because it's just gross. And I just wanted to go punch her because I'm like. Like an apple is gluten free, right? I'm like, there are things that are gluten free. I'm like, you don't. I mean, I think the biggest thing is the pastry side of the whole thing. Right. And which is what you make.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:21:00]:
But I mean, there are so many foods out there that are gluten free that you eat on a daily basis. Right. And so you don't. But the pastry thing is the one that is the biggest thing. Okay, so we thank you every. There's forever Simply me is over on here on Instagram. Flyboy Burgess Z. S Zabara Srbro is joined us live on Instagram.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:21:22]:
If you have any questions for Ashley, let me know. We have a couple of more questions here for you. Andrew has what separates you from other gluten free bakeries?

Ashley Orr [00:21:32]:
Honestly, I think making my own flour, it was truly a process trying to figure out how to create these recipes. I mean, I mentioned I didn't even find out until 2019 that I was officially allergic. And so it was a learning curve, a lot of research. And, and I think having that passion of wanting something so much that you're determined to make it happen and then finding ways to do that, like the flour. And my chocolate chip cookie recipe took 17 different tries before I was able to actually find one that worked. So it's, it's just that drive and passion that's going to make me a little bit different from other bakeries. I'm. I'm going to go that extra mile.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:22:20]:
Okay, so. So there are two people backing you up here on chats here. So Blake Burgess said, I do not have celiac disease, nor am I gluten free, but I absolutely love, in all caps, Ashley's products. I prefer her products to those that do have gluten in them. They're just that good. That's awesome, Blake. Thank you so much. That's awesome.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:22:40]:
Yeah, you have a huge fan there. And then Allison piped in here, who is the owner of Little Blue Bakehouse. When Ashley came to tour the bakehouse, she brought us some pastry samples, including her chocolate chip cookies. And I, Allison wasn't here. So when I found the stash later and ate the cookie, I said, dang, this is the best cookie. Not knowing she was a gluten free baker. Wow. So she didn't know you were gluten free.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:23:03]:
I mean, that's interesting as well. So how did you. You didn't disclose that when you went to looking for the space and why did you not do that?

Ashley Orr [00:23:13]:
So it was disclosed, but I left that sample box in the hands of someone else and the box itself wasn't labeled, like Ashley gluten free vocal, you.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:23:22]:
Know, anything like that.

Ashley Orr [00:23:24]:
So when she saw it, she just smacked her little sample, and because it wasn't labeled, she didn't think anything of it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:23:31]:
Right. That's awesome. Thanks for sharing that, Allison and Blake. I appreciate that. And I do want to say that when Allison was checking me out last week, when I was buying your. Your scone and your pastry or your pop tart, you know, she could talk about all the different items like, that everybody baked. Do you all share that same kind of knowledge with everybody's. And so when somebody comes in and orders your product and maybe one of the other bakers is there, the cash shirt, or.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:24:01]:
And if maybe I'm just. It's Allison that does that. Are you all familiar with everybody's products?

Ashley Orr [00:24:07]:
We're all pretty familiar. I mean, we don't know every single item that another person offers, but that is genuinely just because of how diverse we all are. And we're putting out so many different products. I mean, at any given time, you can find probably 50, 60 different items between all our cases. So it's a lot. But we are always communicating. We're giving each other a heads up on what we're making or getting ideas from each other on flavor, flavors or what we could do for an upcoming holiday event, you name it. So again, it's huge on communicating.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:24:44]:
All right, awesome. What? Have you ever had a close call learning moment in the kitchen that shaped how you approach the food safety aspect of what you're. You know, and all the protocols that you have?

Ashley Orr [00:24:55]:
So in the kitchen, at the bakery. Not really. I wouldn't say I've had any close calls, but definitely at home, being someone who has the allergy, having a husband who does not. There are some close calls that we've had where it's been like, oh, he just used the toaster. I forgot to wash it, and I just put my toast in there. And it's. So it's one of those things where you're like, oh, wait, rewind. We gotta reset this and kind of get it figured back out.

Ashley Orr [00:25:21]:
But that's. That's really about it when it comes to the kitchen. I am focused. I am on it, ready for the day.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:25:30]:
Okay. All right, awesome. When you go out, what are the questions that you ask of a restaurant or a venue that's got baked goods or, you know, when you're, you know. Because it would be really nice to know how you handle your diet, your gluten allergy when you go out, what are the things that you recommend, other people's asking.

Ashley Orr [00:25:51]:
One of the biggest things I asked, if I do not see it clearly labeled on the menu with a gluten free symbol, I'll ask them directly, is this gluten free? Can you recommend anything that is fully gluten free on your menu? Another thing is asking if it's in a dedicated space, if it's in a spot where other gluten items have been made on it, and those really the two big main ones. Double checking to make sure that the food you're actually eating will not contain any gluten, because as we all know it, sometimes it's hidden, like in malt. A lot of people don't know that that has gluten in it. And it's just a caramel coloring. So it could be in your soda, could be in your food. So it's just one of those things. You have to be extra cautious, which is unfortunate, but it's good to ask those questions. And people should never feel like they can't ask those questions because it's their health and safety that's at risk.

Ashley Orr [00:26:52]:
So, yeah, totally. As in, is it gluten free? Do you have the space to make it where it's gluten free? Is there any sort of cross contact? And based on those answers, you kind of get to make your own choice.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:27:05]:
Yeah. And. And how that server answers or what, you know. Oh, I don't know. Let me, you know, you can ascertain what that is. Oh, all right. Allison just corrected me. She did.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:27:16]:
She disclosed. She was just touring with my husband, Carl, so I didn't. No. Okay. So there we go. There we go. All right. And then.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:27:24]:
Thank you for that clarification, Allison. And then Madison, come in. Ashley classically likes it. Classically likes to tell me about a new product she wants to make. And then it's an exact replica of a product I just finished making.

Ashley Orr [00:27:36]:
This happens more times than not in the bake house one morning she was like, have you got any new products you're thinking about? And I was like, yeah, you know, I'm actually thinking about a cookies and creams cinnamon roll. And she just casually shows me hers on her station and goes, you mean like this? And I was like, yep, just like that.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:27:55]:
Wow. Well, and then that's great because it's two different people making that same thing. And so that if you're coming in, if I'm coming in and buying the pastries, I can buy one that's regular and then one that's not. And kind of on that note, how do you know this is more of the. The front of the house sales thing? When I'm putting it into the. And if. When you're putting it into a box and to serve, how are those. Are you separated from the other ones, or is that question asked of the customer before you put it in the container? Does that make sense?

Ashley Orr [00:28:28]:
Yeah, it does. So when someone orders, like, let's say they get something out of a gluten case versus my case, what the front of house staff will do is ask them, is it an allergy? And would you like it put into a separate box? That way they. They know that this product is gluten free. We'll put it in a different box for you. And then another thing they do is change their gloves. Even before they've touched any part of my case, the gloves are changed and then that item is placed into a completely separate box.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:28:59]:
So that's really great. Front of house protocols from, you know, Allison's team or your whole team on that, because you don't want somebody using the same gloves to. To touch that food.

Ashley Orr [00:29:12]:
Yeah, it's. It's huge. I mean, I have the issue with cross contact, so, like.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:29:16]:
Right. Yeah.

Ashley Orr [00:29:17]:
And that's another thing I was talking about earlier, like, the whole entire staff, the bakers, front of house, all of them, they have been truly amazing when it comes to understanding the gluten free aspect. Even though I was a newer part to the kitchen having that specialty, they just adapted to it. They learned what they needed to, and they follow those protocols to make sure that the customers are safe.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:29:43]:
That's awesome. And when they're reaching in, are you guys using tongs or are you just using the hands? And that's the easy. The glove switching. So to get those pastries out of the cabinets. So they'd switch the gloves. Yeah.

Ashley Orr [00:29:55]:
And not deposit.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:29:56]:
That could be used again. Yeah.

Ashley Orr [00:29:58]:
Oh, no, no, no, no, no. And like, occasionally I may have something in there that maybe is a little bit too loose for them to technically pick up with their hands. So I'll put in my own personal spatula from the back, and that'll sit in my case.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:30:15]:
Okay. All right. Awesome. That's. What advice do you give? What advice can you give to event venues and convention centers? I know you touched on this a little bit. That claim they just can't do it. I mean, and again, you said this a little bit, but I don't think they value or they understand. And.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:30:33]:
And that's not. That's not right. The way that I say that. But they underestimate the. How the. They underestimate the power of having clear standard operating procedures. Right. And really, so what can you share about that advice? Can you give to those venues and those other caterers on doing this? Because I do know somebody like said to me, well, once you take it out of the business box and you put it on the thing, you can, you can't call it gluten free anymore.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:31:01]:
Right. And I mean that's really. That means I can only have prepackaged food, like. Right. That doesn't seem fair.

Ashley Orr [00:31:09]:
Yeah, for sure. And that again, another reason I created the business is I wanted people to have options like that. But some advice that I would give to these places that just say, no, we will not serve celiacs or people with these allergens is take a pause, maybe look at yourself in the mirror and understand that you're discriminating against people who have an allergen that we literally cannot help. Like I'm telling you, I can promise people who have celiac myself having a gluten allergy, we want to eat the gluten. We want it. We just literally cannot. So maybe just figure out how to get those protocols put into place. Talk to your staff and communicate with them on what gluten is.

Ashley Orr [00:31:59]:
What does it mean? How can we keep places safe and keep people safe? And the. Again, communication, it's one of the biggest issues. You just, you have to talk to people and you have to set clear standard guidelines so that they understand this is what we have to do. There is no other way to do it. This is what's going to keep people safe.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:32:24]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's a, and just kind of talking to the front of house stuff too. There's a big disconnect too, from like to the kitchen to the, to the front of the house staff. And sometimes those front of house staff are part time. They. They're coming in only for that day of they might not know. So.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:32:42]:
So really having those SOPs and that clear labeling is really valuable.

Ashley Orr [00:32:50]:
Oh, 100%. I definitely feel like when you're doing training in a restaurant that that should be part of the training. Learning about allergens and how to safely avoid giving someone an issue. Pretty much it's a lot, but it can, it can honestly be done. It just takes a little bit of effort and to want things to be different and change, you know, you. You've got to want to serve everyone and not single people out. And there's a way to do It.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:33:23]:
So, yeah, well. And a couple of weeks ago, I had Senator Sally or Senator Turner from Chicago or from Illinois on the show, and she went out to dinner with her chief of staff who was recently diagnosed with celiac, and she witnessed the. The lack of knowledge from the server. And they also gave her a grid and said, here, figure out what you can eat. And now she has. They have together written a law that is now sitting on the governor of Illinois's desk to say that all food service people have to go through gluten and celiac training to understand what it means when they're serving. And they will be the first state in the country to do so because it's really just allergens on all the other training. And so I love the fact that they're doing that.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:34:11]:
But I also. The protocols that you have in place, I mean, little blue big house to me, and with your part of that, I think you're leading that way here in North Carolina.

Ashley Orr [00:34:21]:
Oh, thank you. And yeah, that is, that's amazing that they're doing that. I. I truly think that that needs to be established in more places because I think we touched up on this a little bit. But people don't take a gluten allergy serious. Not as serious as they do other allergens. It's seen as a, oh, well, you can just have a little bit. It won't, it won't mess with you that bad.

Ashley Orr [00:34:47]:
And it's just not the case. It's no different than a nut allergy or shellfish or any of the other ones. It's just as major. And I just feel like that's where a lot of disconnect comes from. People don't understand what gluten is. They don't really. They have no education on it. So, yeah, definitely having something in place for training on what gluten is and how to make sure it's safe.

Ashley Orr [00:35:13]:
100%. Yes.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:35:15]:
Yeah. Okay. So I want to. Besides Andrew or Blake, and that said, he loves your product. And what. Can you share a story about a customer who's been greatly impacted by your business? Positively impacted.

Ashley Orr [00:35:31]:
So my mom and my mother in law are actually, they both have gluten allergies too. So it has been amazing to give them food that they have not been able to eat and enjoy eating it in many, many, many years. Way longer than I had it. So it's just felt really, really good to be able to give what I love doing back to people who deserve to eat whatever they want to. And I have friends who are celiac who they just didn't feel safe eating other stuff or they hadn't had something in so long because it wasn't made in a safe way. And they're able to have that with me. And it's been a game changer for them. Like one of my really good friends, she is forever coming to get cinnamon rolls because she can't find good cinnamon rolls anywhere.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:36:26]:
So that's awesome. And I just want to. This. Madison said this a few minutes ago, but I want to put this up here too. Says you guys talk about new ideas and ways to make it your own gluten free. And that's kind of going back to what you just kind of reiterated with your friend. You know, you're trying to make and your mom and your mother in law like make these products that they've wanted to have and like you've wanted to have, but you're making it gluten free free. And, and I'm going to say edible and delicious, right?

Ashley Orr [00:36:53]:
Yeah, yeah. That's one of the biggest things, right?

Tracy Stuckrath [00:36:58]:
Yeah. Because you, I'm like, you can eat in something and you're like, oh my God, that's just horrible. I'm not going to eat take by one bite of it. Right. But yeah, and why would anybody want to serve that? Right?

Ashley Orr [00:37:10]:
Yeah, that's. That's another thing that maybe sets us apart from some places that just try to do gluten free. The very easy way is we're not going to do that. We want it to taste so good that you can't tell that it's gluten free. And so any product we put out there, that's the quality that we're going for.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:37:33]:
I just, this just popped into my head based on a brand that I love and some other ones too. But are you over, is there excess amount of sugar in your products to make them taste good or are you still balancing that sugar out? I mean, you're not like. Because I was eating one and it was 27 grams of sugar in it per cookie or per cupcake. It's really good. But I'm like, I don't need 27 grams of sugar in one cupcake. So how do you balance that out? You're not using sugar to make it good, you're using other skill sets.

Ashley Orr [00:38:07]:
Yeah. So one of the biggest things is making my own flour blend. I've been able to make a flour blend that is not as textured as most gluten free things. But another thing is it you don't always need Extra sugar. It's not always about the sweetness to me. It's more about the. The feel. How is it squishy and soft? Will it bounce back at you? Type of thing.

Ashley Orr [00:38:34]:
And with that comes making sure the butter ratio is where it needs to be. And with gluten free, you need a little bit more moisture in it. So a lot of times you'll see gluten free places using buttermilk or something that's acidic to help kind of give it that fluffiness that you otherwise wouldn't get that would turn to being dense.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:38:57]:
Right. Okay, you. If anybody questions you, they shouldn't because you know your stuff here. You're baking stuff. Okay. So Allison just threw in here. It. It also just seems like a massively untapped market.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:39:09]:
Like, why wouldn't you want to offer gluten free items when there's such a large percentage of the population that would love to have them? Totally, Alison. I agree with that. Yeah. All right. And then my friend Martin just piped in, hello, my friend. Everybody deserves a good cinnamon roll. 27 grams of sugar.

Ashley Orr [00:39:26]:
Low.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:39:26]:
Wow. Yeah, that's way better.

Ashley Orr [00:39:28]:
Yeah, that's. That's insane.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:39:30]:
Especially when they're so good and like I eat four of them because they're so good. Like, no, I don't need that many. Yeah.

Ashley Orr [00:39:35]:
Because how can you not if it tastes good? So. Exactly.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:39:40]:
All right. And Carl, Gooey bar. He an all exclamation point. Three exclamation points there. Yes. You have some huge fans. I'm really excited for you. You're welcome.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:39:51]:
Okay, so let's do some rapid fire questions.

Ashley Orr [00:39:54]:
Okay.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:39:55]:
Okay. Chocolate chip cookie or churro cheesecake? Cookie.

Ashley Orr [00:39:59]:
Chocolate chip cookie.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:40:01]:
Okay. What is one ingredient that you will need never bake with?

Ashley Orr [00:40:06]:
Oh, probably mushrooms. And don't get me wrong, I only say that because I personally don't like them at all any way, shape or form. I do not like mushrooms. And so I don't feel like I could make a product with them in them and give you an. A legit opinion. Because my opinion would be I don't like it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:40:26]:
Right. Yeah, that makes sense. And I'm like that with cucumbers and mushrooms.

Ashley Orr [00:40:31]:
So nice.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:40:33]:
Yeah. Your go to baking soundtrack or podcast. Going to be eating at a meeting, of course.

Ashley Orr [00:40:40]:
A hundred percent. Yeah. I listen to a little bit of everything. There's not really a specific playlist. It's kind of a blend of different stuff. And then other people in the bakehouse also play music. We'll have throwback days. And so it's really accumulation of different stuff.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:41:00]:
Okay. Allison, you sprayed in. I'm offended by the mushroom comment.

Ashley Orr [00:41:04]:
I know she is. She loves mushrooms.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:41:07]:
I'm sorry, honey, you can eat all of my mushrooms. I don't need to have any mush. You can have them all. And Martin, I want. He's a dj. I want you to chime in and say what should be a good playlist for the gluten free bakery for or the, the little blue bake house. What should they have in the back of the house?

Ashley Orr [00:41:22]:
That would be awesome.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:41:23]:
Yeah. Okay, so what do you always keep stocked in your kitchen besides flour?

Ashley Orr [00:41:29]:
Butter. Butter. Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:41:32]:
And like, like the Kerrygold butter. Like that rich in like that Irish butter or. What kind of butter are you using?

Ashley Orr [00:41:42]:
I get the butter from Costco. I buy that whole. The whole entire box.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:41:47]:
I buy that.

Ashley Orr [00:41:48]:
It's called a case. But it has a good fat content which seems to really work with my gluten free stuff without completely collapsing it. So that's been about the best brand I found so far for me.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:42:02]:
Okay. All right, Madison just piped in here. 100 watches Bob's Burgers while baking. So you do or I do.

Ashley Orr [00:42:12]:
I also listen to their soundtrack. It's amazing.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:42:16]:
Okay, good to know. Good to know. Okay, and one final question for you. Finish this sentence. A great gluten free baked good should always taste great.

Ashley Orr [00:42:30]:
This should never come at a cost. It should always taste good.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:42:35]:
Yep. Yep. Okay, so actually that just thought of something. All of the prices of your pastries in the different containers are all they. Are they all about the same price or are your gluten free products high, more expensive? I think that's something because a lot of some people say, well, I'm going to charge you. There's a surcharge for a gluten free product.

Ashley Orr [00:42:56]:
Yeah. And so some of that I don't agree with. Like if I go to a restaurant and they want me to pay $3 extra just so I can have a gluten free burger bun. That's insane. So those types of things, I. I don't really like that. While my prices will be a little bit higher than the others, that is purely due to how I'm making it. So making my own flour blend for 50 pounds, it cost me about $150 to make that.

Ashley Orr [00:43:26]:
And I go through 50 pounds of flour about every week and a half, two weeks tops.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:43:31]:
Wow.

Ashley Orr [00:43:32]:
So it's those types of things using higher quality, higher grade stuff, it's going to make the cost go up a Little bit. But it's. It's so worth it to get that. That flavor right.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:43:44]:
Exactly. All right. Martin chimed in here. Here. That's a great question. It depends on the vibe they want to set. And then he finished it with the next one. Yacht Rock is making a serious comeback right now.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:43:55]:
Kind of goes with the pastel blue vibe, too. So there you go.

Ashley Orr [00:43:59]:
Yeah. Yeah, I like it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:44:02]:
Yeah. Awesome. I am so happy to have met you, and I am so excited to have talked to you today. Is there any. Oh, actually, let's see. I have. I think I have a banner here. Check out Connect with Ashley.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:44:15]:
That's Instagram. Is that also Facebook? The Sweet Nothings Bakery and Cafe.

Ashley Orr [00:44:19]:
It is.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:44:19]:
Okay. Okay, awesome. You can find her there, and you can find her inside the Little Blue Bakehouse in Raleigh, North Carolina. Do you ship?

Ashley Orr [00:44:29]:
I can ship. It does get a little pricey, especially when you start going in with the overnight fees and stuff. But that's completely customer preference. But I do offer shipping.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:44:40]:
Okay. And you can do custom orders, right?

Ashley Orr [00:44:43]:
Yeah. I love making custom cakes. Cupcakes. If someone has a random idea that they just were like, hey, maybe this works. I'm gonna go, hey, yeah, let's test it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:44:54]:
All right, awesome. Ashley, thank you so much. I appreciate you providing an option for us gluten people who eat gluten free as well as the people who don't eat gluten free and really enjoy your products. So thank you.

Ashley Orr [00:45:06]:
Yeah, of course. Thank you so much for having me today.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:45:09]:
You're welcome. And you and your website is same thing, basically the same thing as your Instagram handle, right?

Ashley Orr [00:45:15]:
Yeah. So my website is linked on my social medias in the bios, but the website name is Bakey. And then it's like a really long.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:45:27]:
So go through Instagram and Facebook to go find a way. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. All right, well, thank you again so much for being here. I really appreciate it. And. And I hope anybody who has a bakery or has a venue in Raleigh, let's see if we can buy some of Ashley's things to serve it at events and venues and.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:45:45]:
But learn from Ashley and what she's doing in the shared kitchen. So, everybody, thank you for tuning in. We had, like, 13 people on Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn that the whole time, so it was a popular conversation. So thank you.

Ashley Orr [00:45:59]:
Yeah, that's awesome.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:46:01]:
Thanks for listening to the Eating at a Meeting podcast where every meal matters. I'm Tracy Stuckrath, your food and beverage inclusion expert. Call me and let's get started. Right now on creating safe and inclusive food and beverage experiences for your customers, your employees, and your communities. Share the podcast with your friends and colleagues at our Eating at a Meeting Facebook page and on all podcast platforms. To learn more about me and receive valuable information, go to tracystuckrath.com and if you'd like more information on how to feed engagement, nourish inclusion, and bolster your bottom line, then visit eating@ameeting.com SA.