320: Getting Gluten-Free Right: Why It’s a Responsibility for Events, Not a Preference

Tracy Stuckrath [00:00:07]:
And welcome to another episode of Eating at a Meeting. And I am excited to bring to you from across the pond my new friend, Clare Beach. She is UK based, London based and she is the managing director of Azura Events. And she is a passionate advocate for inclusive, sustainable event planning and driven by her own experiences as a gluten free neurodivergent attendee. And we got introduced via Miguel from Skift meetings on a LinkedIn post. So I'm so excited to talk to you, Claire, to hear your story and to see where other where we can get. What is the title of this thing that we called it today? Getting Gluten Free. Right.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:00:52]:
Why? It's a responsibility for events and not a preference. So thank you for joining me.

Clare Beach [00:00:58]:
Thank you for having me, Tracy.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:01:00]:
You're welcome. Okay, so tell me about. Let's just because I just mentioned Miguel in that post. Can you tell me about that post that you made and how we got connected to get to this story?

Clare Beach [00:01:12]:
Okay, let's jump straight in. Yes, great. Yeah, so I essentially had a pretty disappointing and frustrating experience from a, a catering and neuro inclusivity point of view at a couple of recent industry events. So by that events organized by event professionals for event professionals, which, you know, you'd have thought we'd be pretty good at doing this and yeah, so my, my frustrating and disappointing experiences led me at the end of that conference to find myself sort of thinking, right, I have three options here. I have had enough. I've had years of this not going to plan and having really, you know, not very pleasant experiences. So I have three options. I can either never attend any events ever again, I can micromanage my own attendance at any events that I do attend, which doesn't sound like a lot of fun either, or I can do something about it.

Clare Beach [00:02:18]:
And after a period of time reflecting after those experiences, I decided that I need to do something about it. So I put a shout out on LinkedIn and asked if anybody in my network or their network knew people who were experts in dietaries and the sort of legalities and the responsibilities and yeah, just the best practice, you know, for how to manage this. So with a view to bringing together a task force force in the UK to begin with and then who knows beyond that. So yeah, we have formed a task force. We've had two meetings now and yeah, it's very exciting to be doing something about the problem rather than just suffering.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:03:09]:
Ongoing, continuing to suffer. Yeah, exactly. I saw a video last week, or my friend shared it to me, of the Illinois senator who has introduced a bill in Illinois to require celiac and gluten free training over and above allergy training because she witnessed her newly diagnosed chief of staff eating out at a restaurant and what that challenge was for her. And she had no, no clue about it beforehand, but then witnessed this. And so it's passed. It's actually going to the governor's office for signature to become law in the state of Illinois. But it's. But I'm telling you that story because it ties into that feeling that you had.

Clare Beach [00:03:58]:
Right.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:03:58]:
And what do we need to do? Right? How do we. What is your task force that you've come up with? You know, what have you decided upon so far?

Clare Beach [00:04:08]:
I think it all comes down to education for everybody that's involved. I've heard some horror stories from colleagues just this week about an event they were organizing last week where the delegates really didn't help the situation. So, you know, our focus has been on, initially was on where is the communication breaking down. You know, the delegates are providing in their registration form their dietary requirements. The planners are processing that information and deciding what, if anything, they're going to do with that, assuming they've even asked the question. Not everybody even asks them the question in their registration form. And then they hopefully communicate that with the caterers and the venue and all the suppliers involved. And then they will hopefully discuss that and how that's going to look and how it's going to work on the day and then check that it is working how they discussed on the day, which again, doesn't always happen.

Clare Beach [00:05:06]:
But the delegates play a big part in this. So, you know, providing accurate information on the form to begin with, telling us that they do have a dietary requirement. We have people who don't even tell us and then wonder why we haven't been able to cater for them. But being at being accurate with that and differentiating between it being, you know, a requirement, as in an allergen or an intolerance or a preference. And we've had discussions around the wording of that, you know, so that we can get a more accurate picture of what we're dealing with. You know, is it just that somebody would prefer not to eat something because they don't like it, or is this, you know, a health and, you know, life and death situation? So, yeah, we're, we're going to put together a checklist of all the different stages of the process to try and identify where the communication fall down. Because obviously sometimes it's perhaps temporary staff who have had very Little training, who are the ones who are serving the food or dealing with the questions from the delegates. And there's a big lack of transfer of knowledge from their managers to the team on the day.

Clare Beach [00:06:22]:
Also requires our planners to appreciate, you know, what's involved in catering for all the different diet. You know, do you design menus that cater for everybody, or do you single out the different. The different groups and how perhaps serving station and every event will. It will work better in some ways for other events. But then educating the delegates, you know, if you have told us that you have an allergy or an intolerance, then that tells us that you're wanting us to cater for that. So when we then email you or contact you and say, you know, here's where you pick up your special meal or good news, you can eat everything on the menu today or any other combination. Or we provide you with a dietary card to put in your place setting at the dinner, come and collect it, use it. Otherwise we then end up in a situation where, you know, the caterers are going to all this effort and then the food.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:07:25]:
So true. Yeah.

Clare Beach [00:07:26]:
Which is a waste. It's not great sustainably. And from a budgetary point of view, it's really not great.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:07:33]:
No, 100% agree. And I actually brought that up last week when I was speaking to MPI Minnesota. I'm like, you know, how many of you. And it was related to kosher. You know, how many of you pick up the phone and talk to the people who request kosher? Because how many of you have left food. Kosher food just go to waste. And, you know, I've saved my clients hundreds of thousands, not hundreds of thousands, but thousands of dollars by asking that question. Because, like, one gentleman can eat off the buffet as long as I label it correctly and let him know what's available.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:08:04]:
Another one who's Orthodox Jew needs that meal from the kosher caterer. But, you know, but it does remind me of a woman who said, I want to manage my dietary needs on my own. And I'm like, but I'm here to feed you. And she's like, but I'm going to. I want to. I don't want to put that burden on you. And Amanda Whitehouse two, three weeks ago said, you, you need to listen and respect that. And I get that.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:08:30]:
But I also want to make sure that they know, hey, I'm here, or we're here to feed you if you need something. Right?

Clare Beach [00:08:36]:
Yeah, definitely. And I think. And it all comes down to how. How that person has probably been made to feel in the past at numerous events where they just don't trust anybody anymore.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:08:50]:
Right.

Clare Beach [00:08:51]:
And that's a shame that they've got to the point point where they're actually just leave me out. You know, they're self excluding themselves from that, from the. From the. The food part of that event. Which is sad.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:09:05]:
Exactly. All right. Because the title is, you know, why it's a responsibility for events and not a preference. Can you explain to me why you think it's a responsibility and not a preference for event professionals based on you as being as an attendee that has, you know, a gluten intolerance versus and ask as well as being a planner?

Clare Beach [00:09:27]:
Definitely. So, I mean, the bottom line is that everybody has a right to eat at an event. You know, if you're providing food for everybody, then everybody has a right to be a part of that. And they also have a right to feel included and welcomed and thought of, not just because you've got a special requirement. Everybody wants to feel those things. It's part of being part of society, isn't it? So I think the alternative, and I've definitely been on the receiving end of this, is feeling like you're a troublemaker, you're an inconvenience, and worse than that, possibly, is to not even be taken seriously, which, having listened to many of your previous podcast guests, when you have a very serious allergy, that's not an option to not even be taken seriously. So I think, therefore, if we are really in the business of being hospitable to people in the hospitality world, then those are really just no brainers, aren't they like to make people feel welcome and included is why we run events. And food is a big part of that.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:10:42]:
Well, and you just said hospital hospitality, but I. There's a statement that I've heard a couple of times before. It's like, we don't want to send people to the hospital because we're trying, as we're being trying in the hospitality industry. Those two words are connected. But we don't want to use the first word only, right?

Clare Beach [00:10:59]:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And having, you know, having been fed gluten in error at events in the past, it le. You know, for me personally, it leaves me feeling very unwell for several days. I feel really tired. And that's the physical symptoms. But, you know, emotionally and mentally, you know, it makes you angry, it makes you frustrated, you feel disappointed. You don't trust people.

Clare Beach [00:11:27]:
You know, the next time somebody says, oh, yes, yes, you can eat this you're going to be. Can I. Because that's what the last person said. And then I felt rotten for ages, so. Right, yeah, yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:11:40]:
I mean, and it, it is. How do you. It's like getting burned, right, or getting glutened. And more accurately is like you've gotten glutened and then so you, but you do have to go out for work. And one of the conversation that you and I had, you know, when we first met over the phone too, is with your decisions, is like, I can't not go to these events because I can't. Because I lose out on the opportunity of growing my business. I lose out on the opportunity of networking, variety of different things. You can't be people with dietary restrictions, can't be hermits.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:12:16]:
No, we have to live our lives.

Clare Beach [00:12:18]:
No, Right, exactly. Exactly. And you know, I mean, at the event that, that I was talking to you sort of straight afterwards a few months ago, you know, I did end up having to go out and get my own food and manage my own catering, and that was the, the solution available to me then. And I, I know of plenty of other people who have had to do the same. And you know, as an organizer of events, you know, I would feel really sad if, if that became an option for one of my attendees because, you know, we failed them. So. Yeah, that's not something I want to happen.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:12:57]:
Right. So on that note, and then mentioning your task force in your checklist, what are some things that you all have already identified or have you identified things, you know, to even start with, to make sure that this changes?

Clare Beach [00:13:12]:
Yeah, I mean, I guess things that I've observed, I mean, it's, it's great to learn from other people's mistakes often, isn't it? Yes. And you know how we don't want to do things. So what some of the really common things that I've seen happen that we've therefore learned from is never assuming that attendees only have one dietary requirement. You know, like for me personally, I'm gluten free and I'm pescatarian. If we provide a, a dietary list with a name and their requirements, you know, perhaps somebody has split that out into two columns. So, you know, gluten free in one and pescatarian in the other. They are joined together next to my name. So the number of times that I've been given, for example, a gluten free bread sandwich and they're thinking, yay, we've done it, we've done it.

Clare Beach [00:14:04]:
But it's got a meat filling and it's like, well, you know, why didn't somebody join the dots there? And you know.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:14:10]:
Right.

Clare Beach [00:14:10]:
Again, you wonder why it's so complex. You know, why it's not being looked at in, in a sensible way.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:14:18]:
Right.

Clare Beach [00:14:19]:
And the same with labeling. You know, at a recent event we had, you know, again, they were very proud that they'd labeled the gluten free sandwiches, but there is no information whatsoever about what the fillings were. So.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:14:33]:
Meaning like a sandwich.

Clare Beach [00:14:36]:
Yeah. So. Wow. Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:14:38]:
Yeah.

Clare Beach [00:14:39]:
What are we meant to do with that? You do just wonder. You do just wonder. And I think, I think also just presenting the food, you know, I've had, you know, it's because quite often they've forgotten or they realize they've got it wrong and then they'll rush away and try and come up with a solution. And literally I've been presented with two slices of bread, not even cut into a sandwich, just shoved on a plate. The sort of poor, sad dietary table in the corner somewhere that just looks right but, you know, just. It's just sad. And also remembering that there are other dessert options other than fruit salad, which I'm sure you've come across many times.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:15:24]:
Well, I shared one a couple of weeks ago. I was with two with Mia and Kayla at a conference and they did a video because they're 20 somethings and can do those videos on the fly. You know, this is two gluten free people eating dessert at a restaurant or at an event. And they were eating, literally picking up with a fork, piece of melon, Right. And putting it in their mouth. I'm like, that's what they get. Can we be a little bit more. And I'm gonna.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:15:52]:
Right, Yeah. I mean, I don't know if you've gotten this book.

Clare Beach [00:15:56]:
Okay.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:15:56]:
She's from the UK and it's up for James Beard award. But Katarina, I had no intention of talking about her today, but making any recipe gluten free, dairy free, egg free or vegan, and it's mostly pastries. And they're so good. I made them for. I made them for the holidays.

Clare Beach [00:16:15]:
I have written it down. I will look it up. Thank you. Yes.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:16:18]:
So it is. I'm like, why do we have to succumb to just eating a bowl of berries or a plate of melon?

Clare Beach [00:16:25]:
And I don't have so many options. And I think the other one, which my team, I. I can feel them almost on edge every service time, you know, particularly, you know, if we're eating together at our congress dinner. And as A team. We do sit down at that point and join our Del. And typically I'm always the last to be served, which I understand some catering managers, you know, they like to do it set very separately to make sure there's no risk, but there has to be ways of managing it so that. That it's not such a delay.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:17:01]:
Right.

Clare Beach [00:17:02]:
And, you know, I've. I have been known to be sitting, waiting while everyone else has finished their dish, because by this point I'm like, please start, please start because yours is going cold and I'm still waiting for of mine. So that's not great. That's not a lot of fun. It's not a lot of fun for me. But it's also very difficult for the people sitting with you because they feel uncomfortable. And the last thing I want is for people to feel sorry for me. I just want to join in.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:17:27]:
Right, exactly. Yeah. You don't. You don't want them to feel sorry for you or to start asking you questions about why you eat a specific way.

Clare Beach [00:17:35]:
Yeah, right. I don't mind that so much, but, yeah, I don't. I certainly don't want people feeling sorry for me. And then I think other. The other thing that I really want to tackle is having staff, you know, and certainly sufficient numbers of staff on site who know how to explain the ingredients and the preparation methods that have been involved. Because a number of times I or my colleagues have said, you know, can you confirm what's in this? Is it gluten free? And people just say they don't know.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:18:11]:
Right.

Clare Beach [00:18:12]:
And if. Even if they don't know, or even if you're not able to equip everybody with that information, at least train the staff with a lovely sentence that says, I'm not the right person to speak to about this. However, if you could just wait a few minutes, I will go and get my colleague who will be able to help you with that question. You could print that on a little card and have it on the tray in people's pockets so that they can read from it if necessary when the time comes. Yeah. Makes me feel heard, it makes me feel supported. It makes me feel as though, again, I'm being taken seriously. Right.

Clare Beach [00:18:52]:
And if they are not the right person to ask, then that they're going to go and find somebody who is. And I think that's. That's a really big learning point.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:19:01]:
Oh, I 100% agree. There is a. And I'm going to. Before I show this, I'm going to say hello to Margaret and my Gluten free gal on Instagram, as well as Tara Samadhi and lifestylists have joined on Instagram. And my friend Teresa. Hello. But one of the things that I've done recently in the last two years at my conferences is for the past order. I mean, this is for labeling in general, and this matches the labeling.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:19:26]:
But I've created this name badge holder. Right. And I created the label on it and it lists the allergens and it's gluten free. But what you just said to me gave me a new idea. It's like, let's. On the back of it, let's put how it's prepared. And this is just pin to the server's lapel. Right.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:19:45]:
And. And so. And they love it. I mean, I've, I've said this multiple times. I've had servers going, oh, I want to be the ahi tuna. I want to be the tater totter, whatever.

Clare Beach [00:19:54]:
You know, has it been cooked in oil? That's right. Used for other ingredients or, you know, even if it is a separate oil, is it right next to the other one? You know, in which case it's probably still contaminated. And often people haven't even considered that. You know, not only do they not know the answer, but they haven't even considered that. Oh, there's an extra level to that that I hadn't thought about. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:20:23]:
And it's really hard, I think too, when we're talking about that front of house staff who is temporary. Right. They're not necessarily the, the A team that works there 40 hours a week. They may be the C team, but I think it's even more important for that C team to be trained to say, okay, let me go get. Like you said, my colleague can answer this question because they are. And one of my friends said this. You're. You're a chef, but you're no better of a chef than you are without the front of house team.

Clare Beach [00:20:54]:
Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:20:54]:
Because they don't see you. Right?

Clare Beach [00:20:57]:
Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:20:57]:
They're not interacting with you. Okay, so Joshua Powers just posted in here. Yes, that is such a good idea. Labeling and cross contamination is so important. Yes, Joshua, 100% agree. And people don't, you know, even if it's the tongs. Right. I mean, that's the kind of that cross contact incident of picking up the tongs and using them from something else.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:21:18]:
Be cognizant of that. Right?

Clare Beach [00:21:20]:
Yeah. Have somebody standing by that. That station. Or better still, have somebody serving and making sure. But again, if, if the servers don't understand why then you're, you're on a losing battle already. You know, just because you've told them that, do not mix up the spoons in the bowls or. Oh yeah, you notice somebody, you know, if they don't fully understand the impact that could have on somebody's day, week, month, year life.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:21:50]:
Yep.

Clare Beach [00:21:50]:
They're not going to appreciate it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:21:53]:
No, they're not. And it's like that story I told you at the very beginning of the senator from Illinois. I'm like, she didn't really think about it until her chief of staff had the challenge. Right. And they were out together and, and I think they handed her a grid and said, here you figure out what you can eat.

Clare Beach [00:22:10]:
Oh, the number of times. And even they are a different format every time. So you're having to, you know, you get handed an iPad or a clip file or you've got to scan a QR code to go into some strange list that you've got to tick what your dieteries are and. Right. And then find that there's literally one item on the menu. But then I was in a restaurant in London last week and they had the little gluten free symbol at the bottom indicating that, okay, so they're going to mark up things on the menu. And I looked at the menu and they hadn't. So I then had to have a conversation and say, well, surely that's gluten free, because there was nothing in it that told me that it should be a problem.

Clare Beach [00:22:53]:
But again, it was down to how it was prepared and the environment that it's prepared in and, and the number of times I've had. Oh, well, you can't eat that because that's rice or you can't have that because that's potat gluten. Sorry. So just basic understanding ingredients is lacking a lot of the time, which makes.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:23:15]:
Which begs to differ or makes me wonder. I don't know. Which makes me wonder probably. So you all have had the EU 1169, which is the regulations on food allergen labeling, which gluten is part of that for 11 years now. And so just making the requirement to label doesn't mean that it's being done.

Clare Beach [00:23:36]:
Oh, definitely.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:23:37]:
Accurately and. Or thought through and that whole process like, hey, great, maybe you sent your print, your printer, your menu to your printer and put these codes on there. But did you really, you didn't think through the whole process?

Clare Beach [00:23:50]:
No, I mean I, I see in every part of the world that I travel to, very inconsistent use of labeling you know. Okay. You know, we acknowledge in different parts of the world it is required to be in different ways, but a lot of the time it's not fit for purpose at all.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:24:08]:
Yeah. Because it's, it's there. It's kind of putting lipstick on a pig, right?

Clare Beach [00:24:14]:
Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:24:15]:
And making the pig look pretty. But it's not, it's not making, making sure that it's, it's safe throughout the whole way. How does, how do you think the industry education? I mean, there's education for servers and food service handlers around food allergies. Right. In the States and in EU and things. But what about for, for industry, for meetings, industry event industry professionals, professional conference organizers. I mean, you're, you have a company. So what do you think training would be for, for you all?

Clare Beach [00:24:53]:
I mean, I think my team would probably say that just hanging out with me and seeing the horrendous situations I've been put in has been great training for them. They've lived experiences through me and it's definitely made them so much more aware of the questions to ask and the impact that different outcomes can have. And again, coming back to how it makes people feel. But I think, yeah, I mean, certainly one thing that the dietary task force that we're setting up, you know, we are going to put together some sort of checklist that will be aimed at planners and also at caterers and venues. And we're also considering, you know, at the congresses that we run, creative ways that we can educate our delegates.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:25:45]:
Okay.

Clare Beach [00:25:45]:
Because, you know, as I said earlier, they're an important part in how, how this all works. And, and if they don't understand the impact of their lack of communication or them not going to pick up the meal that they've ordered, or deciding on the day that actually they're now not vegetarian because that roast beef looks really nice, or, you know, you know, and you know, some of the stories are funny, but some of them are really annoying from a budgetary point of view and from a food waste point of view.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:26:20]:
Right.

Clare Beach [00:26:20]:
So, yeah, we're just, we're just, you know, so I would love to know if any of your, and if any of your network have managed to successfully educate delegates in a creative, not in a you have to do this and you're really bad at doing that kind of way. But maybe we have a poster in our poster session about the impact. Maybe we use our opening ceremony as, as a we know with and get our sustainability committee chair to go and stand up. Just say at the beginning of the congress Right. Okay. Delegates welcome. You know, you've got a responsibility and set out, you know, in a fun way. You know how they help, right?

Tracy Stuckrath [00:27:01]:
Yeah, yeah, I love that. I, I love that idea. And I. A couple of years ago, and it's probably been six or seven, we had a woman at a confere who was allergic to apples and she couldn't be in the room with apples. And so we made, we sent out an email, we put it on the event app as a pop up and the emcee did a joke. This is the only apples allowed in the, you know, the. In the event are MacBooks and iPhones and iPads and things like that. But that attendee, like I share her quote all the time, she's like, you have no idea, you know, how grateful I am and what you did.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:27:35]:
But it really, that has that impact. But I think thinking through we give those security briefings, right? Like we give them to. That would be a great aspect to add to our security briefings for all of our delegates. Right. We're talking about active shooters or whatever. I'm like this could potentially kill somebody right here, you know, on the show floor with. At this for not in the same manner but you know, but that would be a great thing to include in those safety that safety whether you have it on your event app or doing it doing a live conversation.

Clare Beach [00:28:12]:
Definitely. I mean we've. From a inclusivity point of view, we have developed over the last couple of years what we call our Congress guide. And it started out actually I had a. Always organizing a family party last summer and being a planner of course it was all in far too wordy and far too detailed. But essentially the invitation that I sent out to family and friends was a sort of what to expect from the different parts of the party. And a family friend reached out and said this is absolutely brilliant because I am, you know, she's neurodivergent like me. And it gave her the confidence to accept the invitation, understanding what was going to be happening and what to expect.

Clare Beach [00:29:01]:
So I took that feedback and, and worked with our communications manager for our events and we've developed it into what is now our congress guide. And it is aimed at neurodivergent attendees, but also anybody that just, you know, it could be somebody who's never been to an international congress before or has never been to our international congress before because there are things that are unique to each event, but also just people who like to know, like to plan and, and this is, you know, one aspect of the neuro Inclusive events toolkit that I've also been involved in developing and launching a couple of months ago. I think you're going to share the link.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:29:47]:
Yes. At some point. Yep.

Clare Beach [00:29:49]:
Little things like doing a video of how to get from the station to the venue or from the airport venue. And you know, if you can remove elements of anxiety for people, you know, they're more likely to register and they're more likely to actually turn up. And the same goes with dietary information. If we can provide menus in advance, it helps people to plan and to feel that they're going to be comfortable attending. So, yeah, there are lots of things that we can do to help people feel supported and ready to turn up.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:30:26]:
Exactly. I'm typing in that neurodivergent guy. I hope I spelled that right, but okay, there we. I got it posted. Yeah, so it is, I think it really does because there are people, you know, and especially maybe with kids, I'm going to say kids, young professionals who are just coming out of, you know, school, college and coming into the workforce who've never come to a conference before, maybe have never traveled internationally or whatever, or domestically for that matter. Right, Yeah. I think that that adds a whole nother level of comfort for anyone in understanding that. And it does take a lot of due diligence on our part to think about, okay, well, how do I get from point A to point B? Right.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:31:13]:
Or. But you, you know, as a former transportation manager, graphic designer for the Olympics, I mean, we had to figure out, you know, how do the athletes get from here to here and how do you know?

Clare Beach [00:31:27]:
I'm like, you have to think through those things, definitely. But also things like how does a Q A session work? You know, yeah, it's obviously for those, those that have been turning up for these things for years. But imagine, you know, the first time you attend a scientific congress and, and you're wondering why there are people leaping up in the, in the aisles to get to microphones or. But you know, nowadays you can ask questions through an app, for example. So, you know, if you are that first time attendee. So yeah, I mean, things like how to collect your special meal is absolutely something that features in our Congress guide. And I think we will definitely add a section around food waste, around communication and how if we don't know your requirements, then we can't help you and we are here to help you.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:32:19]:
Right.

Clare Beach [00:32:19]:
Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:32:20]:
One of the things I remember when Vancouver Convention center opened, and this is just another idea too, is that they did napkins and signage throughout the convention center talking about how sustainable they were. And they talked about there was a napkins. I'm like, hey, did you know that there were this many clams that live underneath the convention center because it's built over water as well. And so they shared that knowledge on the beverage napkins that were being passed out, you know, when you pick up your drink or your appetizer or whatever. And so I think that was a very unique way. I mean, it's not necessarily sustainable in these. Are they come now, are they compostable napkins or whatever. But at least it's a unique way to distribute and educate people on what you're doing, right?

Clare Beach [00:33:04]:
Definitely. Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:33:06]:
How has your team witnessing you eat or not being able to eat? How do they approach menu designs now?

Clare Beach [00:33:16]:
With a lot more attention to detail, thank goodness. Yeah, yeah. Because they know that when it gets to me, it's, I'm going to ask the usual questions. So they're asking those questions before it even gets to me, which is very satisfying. But you know, I think also, you know, I've always been an advocate for, you know, do we really need to have, for example, a gluten free biscuit during the coffee break? You know, is there a biscuit or a cake that everybody could eat.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:33:52]:
Right.

Clare Beach [00:33:52]:
That is gluten free that nobody else would notice that there are sort of amazing gluten free brownie recipes? You know, as most gluten free people will know, a lot of gluten free free is perhaps not worth bothering with.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:34:08]:
Right.

Clare Beach [00:34:08]:
So I'm certainly not suggesting that we pass out sandy biscuits for everybody, but.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:34:14]:
Right.

Clare Beach [00:34:14]:
You know, there are some amazing recipes out there that, that nobody would even notice was gluten free. And just means that you then don't have to worry about whether your gluten free delegates have got something and that's just focusing on gluten free. Obviously you can include dairy free, nut free.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:34:31]:
Right, exactly.

Clare Beach [00:34:32]:
In the process.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:34:33]:
Yeah, yeah. Well, and I'm, I'm thinking of my Mary's Gone Crackers. I don't know if you can get them in the uk, but Mary's Gone Crackers. They're, they've got ones that are complete 14 allergen, no soy. Some of them have soy, but other ones, they're seed based and they're delicious crafters. You can get them at Costco and they're so good you could just use those instead. But it is. Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:34:56]:
And it eliminates that extra step of having to worry about from the catering side as well as from the Attendee side.

Clare Beach [00:35:03]:
And if you've got a caterer that's willing to work with you on that, you know, I have come across caterers. Oh, well, it'll cost more to, to do it all gluten free. Well, will it? You know, will it actually, again, coming back to creativity, you know, encouraging our suppliers to, to think outside the box a bit more. And I think also just remembering that, you know, education goes both ways. You know, our caterers and suppliers are always teaching us things about the way that they have to manage things. But if we teach, if we can teach them by bringing our event in and insisting that something is done in a certain way, wouldn't it be amazing if they then learn from that and then roll that out for future events so that everybody hides benefits as well? I mean, that's always a conversation I try to have with our suppliers as well.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:35:56]:
Exactly. I, and I actually, I'm like, I want to buy this book and just send it to all the pastry chefs in the hotels that I'm working in so that they can come up with ideas for me before I show up. Right.

Clare Beach [00:36:09]:
Yeah, yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:36:10]:
So I want to say hello to Perry, Adiya and Velcia, who are on Instagram listening. So if you've got any questions for me or Claire, please let us know because we're very happy to answer them. So you're working on a task force for the gluten free for dietary restrictions. You've got the task force or the guide for the neurodivergent. What is your future vision? What is your vision for the future? Inclusive, responsible food and beverage planning for the industry.

Clare Beach [00:36:38]:
Oh, wow.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:36:39]:
Okay, let's go.

Clare Beach [00:36:42]:
Yeah. I mean, again, it all comes back to education. I think as conference planners, we're always astounded that particularly in the uk, event management courses for students don't really cover the conference industry, which I think is such a shame. You know, they tend to focus on festivals and as we know that's, you know, that might be fun for some, but there's so competitive. And the reality is, is that most of them won't get into work on those events. So yeah, maybe we, we build it into the curriculum from a, a college level. Talking about, you know, not just catering courses, but event management courses. I don't know whether it is already.

Clare Beach [00:37:31]:
I would need to find out. But you know, again, the students coming up through the system are already thinking about it, you know, when they're gaining their knowledge and experience, working up through their ranks, you know, that's brilliant. If they've got the awareness and they're asking the right questions. The future.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:37:51]:
Everything labeled the same, you know.

Clare Beach [00:37:54]:
Yeah, that would be nice. Yeah. Just being able to trust what information you're given because I never fully trust. I mean, there are times when you're just so hungry. And again, that's, that's a privilege for me with being an intolerance rather than, you know, a severe allergy.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:38:14]:
And yeah, it's interesting sharing the, the difference between the eu, the UK and, and US and the US is that gluten labeling for gluten is not included in the allergen labeling. Right. It's a whole separate regulation. And when the EU and we have wheat on our top nine list and you, instead of wheat, you all have cereals containing gluten. So it's totally different labeled in the EU and the uk. So that is one big difference. And I, the one thing that I found challenging or interesting as well is that a lot of the countries have elected to go by numbers like one means fish and two means gluten. And each state, each country label chooses which order they go in differently.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:39:01]:
Right?

Clare Beach [00:39:01]:
Yes. And it relies on everybody to know what those numbers are. So, you know, we were organizing an event in Czechia last year and being a UK based company, you know, we're not familiar with what the numbers are because we're not in the EU anymore.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:39:20]:
Right.

Clare Beach [00:39:21]:
You know, we don't have those systems. Systems here. So, you know, it's all very well having the 1 and the 3 and the 5 after something, but if you haven't got the key that explains what the one means and what the three means. Right. The five means, then it's, you know, you may as well just be putting dots afterwards. It's, you know, it's pointless information.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:39:40]:
Exactly. And I was going through a menu the other day, 35 page menu. And the key was on page three at the very bottom corner. I'm like, so I'm flipping through this entire menu and trying to figure out, and I wish we would all get the V or the vg, you know, which I want VG to be vegetarian and I want V to be vegan.

Clare Beach [00:40:04]:
Okay.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:40:04]:
The shorter one word for the shorter word and you know, two letters for the longer word. I mean, it just. Can we just make that standard?

Clare Beach [00:40:13]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's, there's a lot of education at every stage. I think that's needed. Ongoing.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:40:23]:
100% agree. Ongoing education is for sure. And then even though you take your class and we kind of touched on this a little Bit. If you take your online class or your in person class on allergens and food safety, you need to then go to work and test it out. Right. Because it's one thing learning it from a book. Right. It's another thing actually implementing it.

Clare Beach [00:40:43]:
Definitely. And I think, I think giving people the opportunity as part of that education to speak to somebody who has one of those dietary requirements, you know, to understand their lived experience and again, to then appreciate the impact that that has.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:40:59]:
Exactly. Adiya just said, write a book, Tracy. Yeah, I'm gonna. Okay. And she said, write a book, sell it to the industry. I'm like. So I was just. Hold me to it, Aldea.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:41:10]:
So, yes, ma', am, I will. I've been talking about it for years. Shawna Suko would know that. Okay, so we're coming up to that 45 minute mark, so can I throw some rapid fire questions out at you?

Clare Beach [00:41:19]:
Oh, okay.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:41:20]:
Okay. First, what's the first thing you notice about food and beverage when you walk into an event?

Clare Beach [00:41:26]:
Labeling or lack of it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:41:29]:
Right, exactly. It. Planner instinct or lived experience. Which one guides your food and beverage decisions more?

Clare Beach [00:41:37]:
Ah, see, this is, this is a tricky one because my neurodivergent diagnosis is relatively recent and in hindsight, I've been delivering events for however long it is now naturally being sort of drawn towards certain methods of communication or certain levels. Levels of detail. And now I understand why. It's because all, all that time I was building events to kind of suit me.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:42:11]:
Okay.

Clare Beach [00:42:11]:
And my need for information and my need for clarity and to have my expectations managed properly. So it's a bit of both. It's lived experience and, and the need to plan it properly.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:42:25]:
Yeah, I, and I think those two things should go hand in hand for however many years of experience that you have. You know, thinking, being able to think through the things and, and those opportunities that we've experienced to learn from helps us. That's a lived experience at the same time.

Clare Beach [00:42:43]:
Yeah, yeah. And. And like we were saying earlier, you know, all the times it's gone wrong is always an opportunity to learn, whether it be in our events. Thankfully, not too many things have gone wrong, but certainly other events. Learning from that and instead of just being critical and just, you know, sort of analyzing it and thinking, okay, so what, what could have gone wrong here? And how can we make sure that that never happens to us? Yeah, right, Exactly.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:43:10]:
Well, and it reminds me of my Olympic days and we would sit in things, do the what ifs. What if this happens? What if this happened? You Know, or her. And we were thinking about hurricanes and tornadoes. We never thought about COVID you know, epidemic. We'd never talked about, you know, if a food allergic reaction happened. What, you know, those. We needed to think of those what ifs scenarios.

Clare Beach [00:43:32]:
Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:43:32]:
Which then takes me back to my high school friend Molly, who used to ask the question, well, what if we didn't brush our teeth every day? But anyway, like going in a complete tangent. Okay, three more. One thing you wish every event professional would stop doing when it comes to.

Clare Beach [00:43:47]:
Dietary needs, what do I wish they would stop doing?

Tracy Stuckrath [00:43:52]:
Or you could switch it to, say, start doing.

Clare Beach [00:43:55]:
Yeah, I think, I think again, it comes back to education, you know, like instead of just. And you hinted at it at the beginning, actually instead of just assuming that you know what that dietary requirement is for that person, pick up the phone, send them an email, and actually have a conversation about how we're going to most successfully support them to attend. Attend your event because it doesn't take long. And what you'll learn from that conversation will help you then plan effectively. And it may be that that person doesn't need anything, in which case, brilliant. You've saved some hassle and time and money, but you may learn something really important. But I think the main part of that is that person then feels important that will mean so much to them that they will, you know, your, Your events got 8 out of 10 already before they've even turned up.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:44:55]:
Right? Yeah, I. One weirdo. I just got an attendee that's registered and has a chlorophyll allergy. And so I reached out, I'm like, okay, I've not heard of that one, so can you please explain? So it. He appreciated the fact. And he gave me a. A can and cannot have list. And so, yeah, you know, and chef's like, I've never heard of that one before.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:45:13]:
So it's. It's something new. And anybody can be allergic to anything.

Clare Beach [00:45:17]:
And that's what we do with all our accessibility in our delegates who identify themselves to us, is we contact them and just chat through exactly what they're expecting, what they need, and sometimes what they don't want us to do. Because that sometimes is as important. Important as what they do.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:45:35]:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Going back to that person, said, I want to manage it on my own, so let you know. And so, okay, I'm here for you. Let me know how I can support you. Do what you need, but we're here to feed you if you need us.

Clare Beach [00:45:47]:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:45:48]:
Okay. What's Your ultimate gluten free comfort food for a long event day or after a long event day.

Clare Beach [00:45:56]:
What do you mean? Like at the end of the, of the while on site or when I get home? One, when I get home I, I generally crave because I've not been eating as well as I would like to perhaps. I generally have fish and potatoes and loads of green vegetables. I, I don't know, I just need that, the nutrients. Yeah, yeah. That is what I, I, my body tells me I need. Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:46:28]:
No, I, I have that same feeling too because there's the vegetables are very lacking in a lot of the food that we serve. Yeah. Or minimal. Okay. And final question. If you could have your dream dinner party that was safe for you, who would you invite to the table?

Clare Beach [00:46:44]:
Oh. So this actually came up as one of our of the questions for our my team last year we did a blog on each other and what our favorite things to have on toast and things like that. So I would say I don't know if you're going to know all of these people but have you heard of Helen Mirren?

Tracy Stuckrath [00:47:02]:
Yeah.

Clare Beach [00:47:02]:
Okay.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:47:03]:
Yeah, I like Helen Mirren.

Clare Beach [00:47:05]:
Judy Dench.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:47:06]:
Yes, of course.

Clare Beach [00:47:07]:
Dame Judy, definitely Tina Turner. I've been very lucky to see her live in concert twice. So nice. Obviously she would have to come back to, to join us. Kate Ady is my like idol journalist. Okay. Not know her but I very much admired her as a teenager. And then Olivia Colman is a fairly recent person who again is a British accurate actress.

Clare Beach [00:47:32]:
I'm not sure.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:47:33]:
Short dark hair, right?

Clare Beach [00:47:34]:
Yeah. Yes.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:47:35]:
Oh, she's phenomenal. Yeah.

Clare Beach [00:47:37]:
And I don't know they're all, I just love them all as I hope I'm allowed to call them mature women. Obviously Tina is no longer with us so she's certainly more than mature but who have really grown. They just sort of don't take any shit from anybody if I'm allowed to say that, you know, they are strong, independent women and yeah, I would love to have a dinner party with them and just.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:48:04]:
Let's do that.

Clare Beach [00:48:05]:
Okay. Learn from them about how to. Yeah. Be yourself.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:48:09]:
Yeah. That's awesome. Well, I thank you so much for being on here Claire and for chatting about this. This is we were chatting about for anybody who's joining at the end, gluten free. Getting gluten free. Right. Why? It's a responsibility, not just a preference. You can reach Claire on LinkedIn.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:48:25]:
There's her email address. And what's your website address for everybody?

Clare Beach [00:48:30]:
It is azura a z u r a events.co.uk okay, awesome.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:48:38]:
Thank you so much for helping me continue to educate. And I look forward to our continued conversations on what we're doing on educating our industry on this, because it needs to be a collaboration and I like the task. Can I be on your task force from.

Clare Beach [00:48:53]:
From the U.S. yeah, of course.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:48:56]:
Okay, count me in. Right. And I think I'm trying to come to the UK in August, so I will let you know.

Clare Beach [00:49:03]:
We can, yeah, come to South Devon. I'm about four hours out of London, but it's worth the journey.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:49:10]:
Okay, sounds great. I love it.

Clare Beach [00:49:12]:
All right, well, everybody, thank you so much, Tracy.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:49:15]:
You're welcome, Claire. Thank you. And let's turn your experiences into opportunities for the industry to thrive.

Clare Beach [00:49:23]:
So, yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:49:24]:
Okay, everybody. Thank you for tuning in, everybody. That was on Instagram and LinkedIn. We appreciate you being here. And if you're watching this afterwards, please comment. We will be more than happy to make additional comments. Back to you. So until next Wednesday, stay safe and eat well.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:49:41]:
Oh, we got a comment. Hang on a second. Thank you for today's show from today's session from Nancy. You're welcome, Nancy. Thank you for tuning in, everybody. Stay safe and eat well. Thanks. Thanks for listening to the Eating at a Meeting podcast where every meal matters.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:49:58]:
I'm Tracy Stuckrath, your food and beverage inclusion expert. Call me and let's get started right now on creating safe and inclusive food and beverage experiences for your customers, your employees, and your communities. Share the podcast with your friends and colleagues at our Eating at a Meeting Facebook page and on all podcast platforms. To learn more about me and receive valuable information, go to tracystuckrath.com and if you'd like more information on how to feed, engagement, nourish, include and bolster your bottom line, then visit eating@ameeting.com.