238: Explore the Promising Growth Opportunities in the Non-Alcoholic Bev Market

Tracy Stuckrath [00:00:01]:
Okay. Here. Alright. Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of Catering at a Meeting. And as I'm getting set up here, I'm gonna hit go live on the Instagram feed. There we go. So we're on live on Instagram. To anyone who is on on LinkedIn or LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, welcome.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:00:25]:
And anybody who's on Instagram, welcome. Just for everybody to know, Instagram, I will not get your feeds over here, so I do need to comment on your over there on Instagram on another window. So but, anyways, we're we're gonna work on that. But hello. Happy New Year at the end of January, the last day of January, and I'm excited to bring this gentleman here with me, to the show today. He is Marco Salazar. He is the CEO of the Adult Nonalcoholic Beverage Association. Welcome, Marco.

Marcos Salazar [00:00:59]:
Thank you so much, Tracy. Really happy to be here.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:01:02]:
Thanks. I'm I'm so excited to have you here, and you just came off of having coproduced the mindful drinking fest in Washington, And, so I wanna delve into how that went. But can you tell, the audience what is the Adult Nonalcoholic Beverage Association, and what is the purpose?

Marcos Salazar [00:01:24]:
Great. Yeah. So the Adult Non Alcoholic Beverage Association or you can refer to as ANBA, is the 1st trade association for adult non beverage, and the adult is really, really key there. So there's obviously nonalcoholic beverages, coffee, tea, water, etcetera, But it's really adult nonalcoholic beverages. So those that are marketed towards adults of legal drinking age, so in other words, nonalcoholic beer, wine, spirits, and cocktail. So we really needed to be clear what we mean by adult nonalcoholic beverages. It's not sparkling waters. It's not kind of Health drinks.

Marcos Salazar [00:01:58]:
It's really those that are equivalent or alternatives to their alcoholic counterparts and in some cases catering entirely new taste profiles that are sophisticated and complex and that are for for adults when you celebrate, go out, to restaurants and bars or any kind of social situation.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:02:16]:
So I don't have to order a Shirley Temple.

Marcos Salazar [00:02:19]:
Exactly. Or a high sugar high sugary kinda old school mocktail or wine that's super, super sweet.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:02:27]:
Well and and I got an event or I went to an event last year, and they were like, oh, we have mocktails. And I'm like, what? I drank it, and it was a little sweet, but a little tasty. And I'm like, what is it? And it was Cheerwine and Fresca mixed together. So that's a very high sugar soda, not a nonalcoholic adult beverage.

Marcos Salazar [00:02:48]:
Absolutely. And and I think what's been really interesting over the past 5 years is there was a lot of organic Growth. There's a lot of innovative entrepreneurs that saw a gap in the market, that there were people that are treated in many ways like and class citizens that if you go out to a restaurant or bar or you're in an event or you're at a wedding, you kinda have Kosher and water and get kind of an afterthought if you don't necessarily Not only drink alcohol but don't wanna drink that particular day or you just wanna mix and match. So a lot of innovative entrepreneurs Started launching really great tasting NA beer, wine spirits, and cocktails, and there's was a lot of organic growth. But there needed to be and organization that helped build out the infrastructure and brought everybody together to grow awareness and advocate for the category and then really support, businesses that are really trying to change the way the world drinks, and that's really where AMBA came into play. I recognize that there was that, that needs. So brought together, the top and, the top founders of all the brands, formed a nonprofit board because the trade association is a nonprofit, And then we really worked together to really launch ANBA. It's a little over 2 years old.

Marcos Salazar [00:03:58]:
Okay. So relatively young when you think about associations that have been here for decades or even and of years, but there really needed to be something to really accelerate the growth of the category. When you think about vegetarianism to veganism to plant based food or gluten free. You saw and of the the trajectory of starting to get into restaurants, starting and get into to to grocery stores, and now it's kinda prevalent everywhere. We wanna take that same path, but the purpose of the association is instead of it taking decades, we wanna do that in a matter of years.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:04:34]:
Well and I think I mean, we were talking just before we got on. It's a huge revenue opportunity for And, things like that. So who is who can become a member of the association, and who can yeah. Who's it for?

Marcos Salazar [00:04:50]:
Yeah. That's a great question. So we kinda have 3 types of memberships. The first is, the first 2 are producers. So those are independent producers that primarily produce nonalcoholic beverages. You have athletic, ritual, mocktail club, a lot of those that are producing those particular products, and they don't They don't produce nonalcoholic beverage. And then we also have other companies like Diageo, Boston Beer. We have breweries that also are members as well, and we wanted to make sure that everybody was brought into the conversation and recording efforts to grow the category.

Marcos Salazar [00:05:28]:
And then we have a membership for industry members, and that's specifically those kinda third party service providers. We have bottle shops. We law firms. We have marketing firms. We have ingredients companies, those that are really supporting the the mission of ANBA, which is really promoting, protecting, and growing the category all the way from inception to production to eventually the marketplace.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:05:50]:
Okay. And I wanna I wanna jump back onto that 1st category that you said. You said mem or producers who are not also producing alcoholic beverages. So does that keep out bud Budweiser and Hi, Nikki.

Marcos Salazar [00:06:04]:
And that's why we have both of those. So we have independent producers. So we say independent, meaning those are those that are primarily, producing products. So 75% of their products are adult nonalcoholic beverage. But then we also wanted to include into the conversation and into leading the catering, those bigger brands. So we have Boston Beer and Diageo, for example, as members. So we also have them as members, but they have a particular type of membership, which is called an affiliate membership. And Okay.

Marcos Salazar [00:06:34]:
And then we also have the industry member. So we just wanted to differentiate and make sure that, like, members understood kinda the different types of of members that we have in the category.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:06:44]:
Gotcha. Okay. And that and most associations have different kinds of memberships just like you explained. And because I just mentioned Budweiser, I mean, how huge is it that they named their nonalcoholic beer the beer of the Olympics for 3 years.

Marcos Salazar [00:07:00]:
Yep. A 100%. I I think that shows where the category is going, and they recognize that they're But this isn't a trend. It's not a fad. It's a fundamental shift in consumer behavior. It's a fundamental shift in how people perceive what they put into their bodies, and it's a fundamental shift shift on wellness and what that looks like not just from a food standpoint, but also from a beverage standpoint as well. So So they're recognizing that customers are demanding these types of products, and therefore, they're putting an emphasis on that. I know that by I think I don't know if it was 25 2025 or 2026, but they wanted over 20% of their revenues to be coming from their nonalcoholic beverage adult nonalcoholic beverage portfolio.

Marcos Salazar [00:07:43]:
So there are and you're starting to see some of the larger nonalcoholic alcoholic beverage companies really, really diving deep into this category.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:07:53]:
Now what makes it a nonalcoholic beverage? You know, what puts it into that catering? And for for for the Budweisers of the world and then for the home brewers that are building these smaller brands, these entrepreneurial brands.

Marcos Salazar [00:08:10]:
Yeah. At at least in the US, by legal definition, it's 0.5 ABV alcohol by volume, or below. So that's really that definition of of adult nonalcoholic beverages. In some other places, in other countries, it's slightly different, But that's really kind of how you would define it, and then the other is it's marketed towards adults of the ill drinking age, usually as an alternative to alcohol. So, again, LaCroix, Coke, they all have alcohol in them as well, trace amounts of alcohol, but they're not primarily marketed towards adults. They're kind of just marketed towards everybody. So that's really that that boundary of what it what we consider adult nonalcoholic beverages.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:08:50]:
Okay. Awesome. And I wanna 1 more question about the association. How, and and maybe there'll be more, but I have no idea. But Absolutely. What are your because as a meeting planner, I know there's a there's ways to lobby for different things. Are you going Do you have the ability to lobby for this market, or is it literally just you do really good LinkedIn posts explaining different, reports that come out on how the market is growing, etcetera. But what what will your members get out of the association?

Marcos Salazar [00:09:23]:
Absolutely. And and I think one of the primary goals of any association is ensuring that the regulatory environment and the marketplace is really And to the growth of its members, right, the growth of its businesses. So we do have multiple committees that focus on exactly what you just said, Which is we have a government affairs committee. We have an industry and safety standards committee, events committee, finance committee, marketing committee, and under that is even a market development committee. So we have multiple committees that really focus on those areas. Regulation is a really big thing that we're focusing on events 24 and just in general as a whole. And it's a combination of supporting our members and understanding what's the current regulatory environment.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:10:06]:
Right?

Marcos Salazar [00:10:06]:
And what are the laws at the federal and state level? What's unique about ANBA is that most associations only cover something specific like Beer. There's the Brewers Association or spirits. There's Distilled Spirits Council of the US. We cover all the catering, So we also focus on there's some brands that and products that are under the TTB, but then also the FDA. So really helping our members be able to navigate that. That's one of the key things. The and is then also events long term advocating at either a federal or state level. I know there's a lot of states that have different laws, based on nonalcoholic beverages, it's it's new and some how you fit that into its current existing laws.

Marcos Salazar [00:10:51]:
So that's the type of stuff that we work on and kinda advocate for and to support our members. Safety and industry standards are really important as well, whether it's labeling, ensuring that the products are the highest quality products. So we provide a lot of support for our members as well in terms of that in addition to the marketing, in addition to the events, in addition to the overall awareness.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:11:11]:
Okay. And then

Marcos Salazar [00:11:12]:
the other thing is just they get to connect with other members, and that's one of the most valuable things so they can share knowledge and expertise And really be part of a community that's coming together in a unified voice.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:11:24]:
That's awesome. And I think it's, You know, bringing them all together, I was watching something about cancer research that's being done and and somebody that's pulling creating a new association to help all the breast cancer researchers come together instead of doing it in their own little silos. So I like that whole concept. Okay. One word in there that you said regulation. Right? And I live in the state of North Carolina. Right? And I can go by, I know the Harris Teeter in my town has nonalcoholic wine in the grocery store for sale. I can't find I think there's and little shop downtown that sells some nonalcoholic beverages, but otherwise, I have to order it online.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:12:08]:
So I don't have the luxury and I went to miss where did I go? Minnesota and went to a couple of nonalcoholic beverage shops, which were great. And I know there's some in Raleigh, but what how can meeting planners and or hoteliers and bar, you know, bars. Get the product. I mean, if you can't get it from the ABC store

Marcos Salazar [00:12:29]:
Mhmm.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:12:29]:
And it's not in the grocery stores, where how do we get them?

Marcos Salazar [00:12:33]:
Yeah. I I I think you you bring up a really kinda interesting advantage and challenge as well. So for adult nonalcohol beverages, since they're not alcohol, you could Ship them. Right? Okay. So you can get them online. You can purchase them online, which is really, really great, so you don't necessarily have to go to your particular store. And there's a lot of marketplaces out there that you can get pretty much every type of nonalcoholic beverage you can you can think of. But then you're also mentioning Different states have different laws, and they have sometimes different laws based on the different types of products, whether it's beer, whether it's wine.

Marcos Salazar [00:13:08]:
Some some laws, you have to get it through a distributor, and there's distribution and. There's wholesaler laws. There's a lot of kinda different things, and that's part of the purpose of the association is really to help Kinda untangle that for members and then events consumers as well. But what I think and in in some instances, if you have an event meeting at a hotel, Sometimes those hotels are required to go through specific distributors or purchase through particular areas as well. What's really unique is that there's a lot of really great service, third party businesses that are opening up. You pointed out some of those are bottle shops that strictly only sell nonalcoholic beverage, But you also have companies like Poisson that they're based in New York as well as Better Roads that are based in the Midwest, And they you can eventually purchase. They're essentially becoming their own form of distributors, and you can buy wholesale from them as well. And what's nice is there a bottle shop and then a marketplace, and then you can also place all of your orders directly through them to be able to purchase, to The hotel can also start doing that as well.

Marcos Salazar [00:14:15]:
So they actually are building out wholesale accounts with restaurants and bars and hotels. So what they're doing is then they're becoming the curators and the providers and the distributors for those businesses so they don't have to have Ten different types of accounts based on those individual brands. So so those are some really, really good options as well. And, again, the the that's emerged as a result of the growth of the category.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:14:41]:
Okay. So let's talk about the growth of the category. And if you don't follow Marcos on LinkedIn, you need to follow him because he does a really good I'm gonna put your LinkedIn profile up there. You do a really good job of breaking down reports that talk about the data, and the statistics that come around the growth of the market. So what are you seeing? And and I remember the one that you posted from, was it food and wine or no. Wine, Enthusiasts did said it was growing. Right?

Marcos Salazar [00:15:12]:
Yeah. I mean and and a lot of that is really being Based on some stats that are coming out from a couple of really and outlets that typically do beverage halal call stats, which is Nielsen, Nielsen IQ, As well as IWSR, and then SPINS is also another, one that does kind of the scanning data in grocery stores, and they're starting to merge or pop up. What's what's starting to happen now, and we're at the beginning stages, is that because there's this and new category, which is adult NA beverages, In the past few years ago, it was getting lumped into nonalcoholic beverages as a whole, which was coffee, tea, and catering. And now Nielsen and and others are Starting to be able to differentiate that. And what you're seeing in in all the different, data is, like, this category is growing year after year, and amongst the beer, wine, spirits, and cocktail category, beer tends to be the driver, and has been the driver with kosher I think it 83% of nonalcoholic beverage sales are through beer, and you have companies like Athletic and others that are really helping to drive that, But you're starting to see an increase in wine and spirits, and the reason why is because better and better wine and spirits are emerging and popping up as well and more products. So the availability as well as the quality is increasing. But I think one of the things that I think is important for the audience to know It's like who are buying these products. Right?

Tracy Stuckrath [00:16:42]:
Right. Yeah.

Marcos Salazar [00:16:43]:
And and I think there's a couple things for us to really think about. The first is that 94% of purchasers of nonalcoholic beverages are still alcoholic. They still drink alcohol. So they are moderators. They are not the the who's driving the category isn't necessarily those that have fully gone sober Or that aren't drinking for any particular reason, they're mixing and matching whether they're not and and they're drinking nonalcoholic beverages on particular occasions Whether they don't wanna drink during the week, they have a meeting the next day, or sometimes they're mixing and matching and having a full strength beer versus a versus an Nonalcoholic Peter right after that. So it's people that are wanting to moderate or drink less, which is really, really interesting. So that's very interesting for any type of business because your nonalcoholic drinker and alcoholic drinker are the same customer, and you will sell more if you offer beverages as a whole, if you offer both in your establishment. The second is that there are, younger people that are helping to drive the catering.

Marcos Salazar [00:17:49]:
Gen z and millennials who are drinking much less alcohol than than previous generations, are really focused on health and wellness as well as mental health. And there's much more information about the negative impacts of alcohol, And they're turning towards still wanting more sophisticated beverage, but not necessarily water or tea. They want something, that's that's unique and different. Great. And then you also have older, folks, in their forties, fifties, and and above Who are also driving the category because they have the disposable income, and they may have not been drinking or wanting to moderate for a long time, and now there's great options available. So It really is, the the gamut of people that are purchasing the products, but there's these interesting trends that are pushing it forward.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:18:37]:
Well, even you know? And talking about eating at a meetings. Right? Where's my finger there? And you might wanna just have 1 drink, and then you wanna still have the perception that you're continuing to drink or to have not go to a club soda and necessarily be ridiculed, right, for doing that depending on the setting that you're in. And if it's an old boys' club or something like that it allows you to still, do that.

Marcos Salazar [00:19:07]:
Yeah. A 100%. And I think we're starting to get to that Change where there's less and less of a stigma of you, and, not shaking in beverage. But I think to your point, I I was talking to someone recently, a a couple friends and one of them who isn't, who's deciding to not drink anymore, but there's still something about holding something in your hand, to sipping, tasting something when you're in those kind of situations, but you don't necessarily want, like you said, a Shirley Temple or something something sugary, And now there's these options available. But then I think now we're getting to a point where even if you are not drinking, an alcoholic beverage and you're drinking a nonalcoholic beverage, There's no reason for you not to acknowledge or admit that. There's more and more kinda stars and not just celebrities, but and these micro Macro and micro influencers that are starting to really point out or shun drinking alcohol and the negative effects that it has. Doctor Huberman, one of the one of the best podcasts and most listened to podcasts, in the world, did a whole art, episode on, the negative impact of alcohol, which all of the Silicon Valley VCs and kind of start up people ended up take listening to, And now you're having really and of prominent VCs and entrepreneurs that are shunning alcohol because it has such a negative impact on productivity. So you're starting to see more and more of that coming into the into and the culture, and that and it's leading and it's now becoming this badge of honor in some ways, Still small.

Marcos Salazar [00:20:39]:
That hangover free, mornings are great because then you're not gonna have to nurse then. You're gonna be a better entrepreneur and a better worker.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:20:48]:
Well, a better worker in general. I mean, I remember going to an event years ago, and and I I'm the meeting planner, so I'm the 1st one up and the last one to go to bed, but I'm not the last one to go to bed because I'm out partying with the sales teams. Right? I'm Yep. You know? But Let's think about what our sales teams are doing and how much money they are. And and, actually, 2 weeks ago, I shared with Kate and and Jen from 0 Proof Collective, You know, one of my former coworkers lost her job because she got so intoxicated at an event. She fell into the fountain at the hotel and split her head open and all that. So We don't want that's not what we want from business meetings. Right?

Marcos Salazar [00:21:27]:
Yeah. And and I think at the core, what it's really about is options and inclusion. We just want I I know that there are some people that kinda shun non alcoholic beverages. They kinda say what's the point, etcetera. We just wanna provide people options whether they wanna drink or not and they have the option for a great tasting nonalcoholic beverage. And we want people to feel included in any type of social situation. So for me, I got married a little over a year ago, And we had a full, a bar that had alcoholic, drinks and a full bar that had nonalcoholic drinks. So everybody was able to when we did a toast, everybody had nonalcoholic and alcoholic champagne.

Marcos Salazar [00:22:10]:
We had pitchers of margaritas and then we of Full strength, and then we had pictures of nonalcoholic margaritas as well. I had friends who were pregnant that were dancing on the dance floor, and they had, spritzes and any beers. So everybody felt, part of the part of this, the event, and it's religious, again, making sure that you just have and different types of occasions so people have the ability to be able to drink something really tasty.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:22:37]:
Now I wanna I wanna talk about the separate bars for those. Do you find that that's easier to do, or do you should we be melding them together on the same bar?

Marcos Salazar [00:22:48]:
I mean, you could do both. I mean, I think the thing that was I mean, I'm obviously CEO of the Adult Non Alcoholic Beverage Association, so people knew they were gonna get both. But I think there are the products are differentiated enough that you would be able to tell, but you could be able to kinda separate that out. I've been to a bar But on one side like, we had 2 full separate bars. Right? We had a 200 Okay. Some person meetings, but there was a smaller wedding that had, just, at any option and a couple any options on one side and then on the other. So it kinda just depends on on kinda your audience and how you wanna be able to to structure it. But, I mean, it was great because I got married in New Mexico.

Marcos Salazar [00:23:28]:
The elevation is 7,000 feet. If you drink an alcoholic beverage, it's gonna hit you much more. All the east that came, it's gonna hit you much more. We let people know that there were the options available so that people mixed and matched and had their full drink margarita, and then they had a nonalcoholic beverage, and that was great because then people got to party till 4:30 in the morning.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:23:49]:
You wait a minute. You were up till 4:30 in the morning?

Marcos Salazar [00:23:52]:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We were partying at 4:30 in the morning for our wedding. Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:23:56]:
Wow. That's a you didn't you weren't the bride and groom that ran off and went on your honeymoon and

Marcos Salazar [00:24:00]:
No. No. No. No. No. We were dancing till that till that till then.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:24:04]:
That's nice. That's awesome. Okay. So one of the how How can or let's just jump to the festival. So this past weekend, it was Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, the mindful drinking fest, which was started by, your friend and a guest here on the podcast, Derek Brown, and I forgot her name. Also Maria. Maria. Thank you.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:24:31]:
How did that tell us about that mindful drink fast to and drinking fast. And you I think you said told me there were over 40 brands there.

Marcos Salazar [00:24:40]:
Yeah. I mean, it it was really great. I I think ANBA food ANBA has always We've been for the past couple years focused on how do we grow the industry, support our members, support those within the industry, but a big part of our mission is growing awareness of catering, and that means engaging with consumers. So we had always been thinking about doing some kind of consumer facing events, and Derek had been doing this for a he had he had done a couple events last year, mindful drinking fest, and I always think about how do you scale through partnerships and how do you Collaborate and amplify each other's impact. So we connected and realized there was a really great opportunity of bringing our members in As well as taking their event experience and really co producing and catering this really amazing event and amplifying it and growing it bigger. They did a really amazing job of being able to bring, some awesome activation event experiences. We were able to bring a lot of our members in And had over 40, sponsors and brands, over a 120 different products. So people got to Try a variety and plethora of nonalcoholic beverages, but then we also had panels.

Marcos Salazar [00:25:47]:
We had a, And nonalcoholic karaoke. We had a a a, sound catering in in in in, one of the to parts of DC. We also had a disco rave. So it was just a lot of really great experiences all without food. So that was that was really fun, and it was well attended and people actually loved being there. But I think the other amazing thing, and it was great to needs yes. People are drinking, are purchasing, and wanting to consume nonalcoholic beverages, but it's really a vehicle for connection. It's really a vehicle for celebration, and it's really a vehicle for social well and wellness.

Marcos Salazar [00:26:28]:
And that was really on display where people. You saw all these connections and this community being built and strengthened, and and that was one of the beautiful things about the about the weekend.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:26:39]:
Awesome. And I know there were, like, beverage tours and and different, meetings. So I was planning on going. Unfortunately, I missed it. So I it's on my agenda for the next one. So I what do you think came out of that? I mean, I know last year, Derek, There was a really good article in NPR that came out of it, but what do you think's gonna come out of it from the attendees of that event? I mean and was there any, data collected on, you know, who what the demographics of those attendees are. Are are they drinkers? Are they nondri you know? Are they yeah.

Marcos Salazar [00:27:15]:
Yeah. Data to become, that's all and of post what we're working on as well as kinda getting all that feedback because we're gonna be doing this annually, so we wanna Okay. Grow this Bigger and bigger and bigger. So using that data to then, make it better and better. I mean, it was it was a combination of those that were Those that were nonalcoholic beverage fans, those that were kinda sober curious or curious, and then those that are kind of Thinking about meetings. I had a couple friends that I invited that had recently 1 recently stopped drinking and one, hasn't really drank But he's also a bar kosher, so it's really great for them to be able to see all the wide variety. I think some of the things that are gonna come about is just like there is this community. It felt like a it felt like a big step in growing the overall movement of changing the way the world drinks.

Marcos Salazar [00:28:05]:
I think changing the concept and the perception of if I say, hey, Tracy. Let's grab a drink. The default isn't, oh, I'm assuming it's an alcoholic beverage. And just a great tasting beverage independent of what it is and where we're gonna have it because, hopefully, there's amazing nonalcoholic options there. So I think it's towards kinda normalizing that. I think the other thing that was really valuable is we had a lot of kinda, like, in influencers as well as those that were, helping to drive the category that were nonproducers, that were somehow involved. And that was the this was the first time they met in person

Tracy Stuckrath [00:28:39]:
food the 1st time. That's cool.

Marcos Salazar [00:28:41]:
So so they all had done, like, Zoom meetings or knew each other on on Instagram or LinkedIn, and they all met each other. A lot of them met each other for the 1st time, So that was what was really amazing as well, and I see a lot of partnerships and collaborations coming out of that as well. Okay. And Yeah. I mean I mean, it's really interesting to think, like, and of the like, 2 of the key sponsors, Toast as well as Ritual 0 Proof, the like, I I drink them regularly. Toast is this beautiful, sparkling beverage that is, tea based that it, it's kind of a substitute for to wine alternative. Has, like, hints of cranberry and ginger, and then Ritual has this aperitivo that's just very bitter. And I make my spritzes with them as well.

Marcos Salazar [00:29:25]:
And so it's like thinking about them being able to connect and be able to partner into some collaborations and making new drinks. It's it's pretty it was pretty cool to see.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:29:32]:
So they're even the brands are collaborating.

Marcos Salazar [00:29:35]:
Yeah. I think there were a lot of brands that hadn't participated before. We have a we have a a new brand that does this ginger beer, and it's made with a Scotch bonnet pepper, Okay? Definitely the best ginger I personally, I think it's the best ginger beer that I've ever had, because it has such a strong kick, And they were just became And members. They were, this was their 1st kind of event that they had done with us. And it it that their product was being mixed to Without even and, like, some of the bartenders went to go and taste the the ginger beer and then just and then just took it because they started making drinks with it because it was just so good. To Wow. Yeah. That's kinda some other interesting things that emerge is, like, it's an opportunity for for collaboration.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:30:22]:
Okay. So one of the things too for, like, for me being at home, I am not a bartender. And and how do I I mean and I I have how do I mix those drinks to make it simplistic? Right? Not not Derrick Brown level because I'm not gonna be Derrick Brown level of a bartender at any point of my life.

Marcos Salazar [00:30:44]:
Yeah. Oh, Oh, I think there's a couple things to kinda think about. The first is that, food, if you wanna and make your own drinks, there's definitely alternatives that are direct alternatives to alcohol, which is you can get your NA whiskey, NA rum, and you can get, like, a ritual zero proof rum, Mix it with, and and I just wanna share the name. It's it's, uncle, uncle Wakely's, ginger beer. So you mix that with with, with the with Ritual 0 proof rum, and then you end up having a great dark and sparkling. And it's a pretty simple cocktail that you can do. So there are, like, those and to and, products that you can mix together to all to make a typical Manhattan, a typical, dark and stormy, etcetera. But then you also have and I think what's gonna be emerging more and more is that you also have botanical based spirits that don't even have a direct alternative.

Marcos Salazar [00:31:44]:
They're their own products in and of themselves. So you can actually kinda taste them and and I I have a lot of those types of products, and I just mix it with soda water And then use that. So we have a company, one of our members called Wilderton, and they're based out of Portland, and they have a couple products, botanical distilled spirits, And one is called earthen, and it's made with bergamot and, douglas fir and a few other kind of really interesting ingredients. When I had it And I, had it with just club soda. It was so kind of strong and powerful. I felt like I was walking in the Pacific Northwest in the forest. Wow. Visceral of a reaction, and I just really enjoy it.

Marcos Salazar [00:32:27]:
It's 0 allergies. So if I'm ever kinda going keto, I'll actually drink that to catering something tasty. So it is pretty easy to be able to make some of these, products at home. And then the most of the other most of the products are also having versions of ready to drink cocktails. So they're already kinda making their own versions of of a gin and tonic if they're making a nonalcoholic gin. So you can also find those as well.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:32:55]:
Well and that's, like, the spirit. Listen, And, Lauren's been on the show as well talking about those, to the canned, nonalcoholic ready to drinks, which I have some in my refrigerator downstairs. So, Yeah. That's that's really interesting. Now how, let's get back to the hotel market, you know, because I I'm producing 3 events this year, and I know I've already gotten cookbooked back from 1 hotel that's saying, hey. We don't offer these things because nobody asks for them. How can what's the best way for meeting planners to get the buy in from the hotels to do this? And And I've said it before. I mean, to me, it's perfect for a planner to to do this because they can increase their food and beverage spend, you know, with a nonalcoholic thing, but I we need to get the hotel's buy in on that.

Marcos Salazar [00:33:48]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I think one of the first and foremost is that obviously, you can present data and kinda show there's a there's mark demand, but I think at the end of the day, it's really like it's service issue. Like, are you really treating your customers in the best way that it that they possibly can by Offering them alcoholic beverages and then everybody's kind of an afterthought. And and I think that's and the first thing to be able to think about is that you wanna create, the best experience for your customers, and that's how you end up integrating it. I think the and point to your point is that from a price point, You can sell someone a water at a couple dollars or or or a or a soda. Dogs. Yeah.

Marcos Salazar [00:34:29]:
Yeah. But you also have a you're right. You're totally right in that context. But if you have a sophisticated nonalcoholic beer or wine or a ready to drink cocktail, that can be at a much, much higher price point to your point about the spend. And then I I think the other is that if you want kind of to your point about the friend, your friend and probably drank a little bit too much, You probably want your, attendees to be able to moderate at some level. And if they're drinking something sophisticated, they might wanna drink something that's the equivalent and not necessarily wanna switch out into something that's just water. So you could have you could have that. And then I think the other is that There's an opportunity for a discovery as well to be able to for people to be able to discover really new and interesting types of beverages.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:35:18]:
Right. And Derek and I talked about that too because you're looking at when you're looking at a hotel bartender at an event in the catering in the catering area of the hotel, not the bar up front. It's not a level of a bartender like Derek or those people up front. Right? So we have to make it easier for them to do and for them to learn and experiment too and and educate them on that. I like that.

Marcos Salazar [00:35:42]:
On. And and I would say the ready to drink cocktails are a really good option as well because they could be very familiar. You can have a direct NA version of pretty much every single type of cocktail, a mojito, a sangria, cosmopolitan. They're all out there, and they're really delicious. Okay. And then the other thing sometimes is, I know that some bartenders will use those ready to drink cocktails as a base And then do something different with it to make a different, more complex cocktail. So that's another option as well.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:36:13]:
That's a good idea. So we've got a bunch of people, on Instagram that are following us as well, but Kate, Faulkner just piped in, who you know, I think. Congratulations on your brand new baby boy. But she has regarding this topic, what strategies Do you find are the most effective in educating consumers on and on premise about nonalcoholic options?

Marcos Salazar [00:36:36]:
Yeah. I mean, I from and those are kinda 2 different. So we'll cover the consumers, and then we'll cover the cover the on premise. And I'm assuming they're thinking the on premise, meaning, like, the owners?

Tracy Stuckrath [00:36:47]:
On premise yeah. I guess so. Exactly. Because the owners or in a hotel or the convention center, the food and beverage directors who

Marcos Salazar [00:36:56]:
Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:36:56]:
Might not get out in the world and understand that there's these options.

Marcos Salazar [00:37:00]:
Yeah. I think from a consumer standpoint, The reality is is actually just sips to lips, meaning taste.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:37:07]:
Okay.

Marcos Salazar [00:37:08]:
Right? Okay. They need to be able to have the option to be able to taste. And this has always been the case very, very early on, events, like, 4 or 5 years ago, where athletic was literally giving tons of beers away at events and marathons just so people can come to to taste the product. And what happens is is every and I do this in my own. Like, when I I love creating events. I love meetings events. We have a great house to be able to do that. So I end up presenting and helping people be able to taste these nonalcoholic beverage.

Marcos Salazar [00:37:39]:
And once they taste them, they don't it it really dispels any myths that they may have or believe in that any beer is just like a very sorry verb version of a of a beer. They're not really catering. They're not complex. Or the, the cocktails are just too sweet or they're gonna be a bunch of sugar in them. So So I think that's really kind of that first first step. And then the second is that I think that there's an opportunity of being playing into And you've seen this much more on the dry this this year in terms of dry slash damp January is that a lot of the articles that you're seeing are less about these are great nonalcoholic options available and really integrating health and wellness as them being a part of health And wellness as a whole. Right. So I think that's another way that you can really kinda talk about as people are thinking much more consciously or mindfully.

Marcos Salazar [00:38:31]:
And then 3rd is, like, Alcohol, unfortunately, impacts your work and impacts your next day, so you can be able to really enjoy and have a great, beverage and not suffer any consequences the the next day.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:38:44]:
Right. Yeah.

Marcos Salazar [00:38:45]:
Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:38:45]:
So and, 2 things that came out of that too because You were talking about people thinking, oh, this is, you know, this is nonalcoholic beer with wine. It's not gonna taste good. That hotel convention person said to me, Well, we have grape juice. You know? Yeah. So, I mean, wine is grape juice and regular wine is grape juice because it came from grapes, but how do we dispel that?

Marcos Salazar [00:39:09]:
Yeah. I mean, I think one of the things again, I'll kinda share this. And this, again, is a much more challenging thing, and I think this is why it's slower when it comes to hotels or on premise is those people have to taste it too.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:39:20]:
Right.

Marcos Salazar [00:39:21]:
Okay. And of the day because if they have a perception over decades Of any wine companies that were kinda just chugging along and selling very high sugary or very sweet, Essentially, grape juice, when when it comes to wine, they're not gonna change their perception no matter how much you tell them that Mhmm. There's great any wine options available. So they're the ones that are actually gonna have to taste it as well. So you can present as much data as you want. You can kind of Right. Talk your like, talk yourself, Say as much as you can to them, but they at the end of the day, they really need to fix it. So the one thing is that I think that a lot of our members would be very open to being able to Send samples if you're gonna be hosting an event to be able to be able to, convince those decision makers to carry the products.

Marcos Salazar [00:40:13]:
Okay.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:40:13]:
Awesome. Now, my friends here, just popped in his well on LinkedIn, 2 alpha gals. They can't wait to watch this from the beginning, but, so that's, 2 alpha gals is about a the mammal allergy food allergy. And there was an article today that I saw or a post I saw today is that vegan doesn't mean free from milk and eggs. It should, but there's no there's no regulation about what the word vegan means. So are these brands are they more in tune with putting labels on there and sharing what's in the in the beverages than some of the alcoholic partners because they're not regulated to put the allergen ingredients into the lay on the labels. Does that make sense?

Marcos Salazar [00:41:00]:
Well well, nonalcoholic beverages are required to have food labels because they're not so if you so if you look, Every every nonalcoholic beverage does actually have the calories, etcetera, because that's that's part of their regulation. Okay. So so it actually does have those, and it does the ingredients unlike their alcoholic counterparts

Tracy Stuckrath [00:41:19]:
Right.

Marcos Salazar [00:41:19]:
Do not. But there is legislation that is gonna be changing that in the US Where there are gonna require that, and I think that's gonna be an interesting wake up call for people to see all the ingredients and all the calories that are kinda their alcoholic counterparts. So it's gonna be interesting to see how how how Baby Doctor. Paul brands navigate that.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:41:40]:
Yeah. Especially with this market of, hey. I wanna be healthier. Right? I don't want all that sugar, etcetera.

Marcos Salazar [00:41:47]:
Yeah. And and I think to to just to to and of be clear on that, I mean, it's interesting to kind of the vegan is that, Again, it's nonalcoholic, so 0.5 ABV or below. There's been tons of research that that that's and absolute safe level in terms of in terms of consuming that product. You'd have to drink 20 nonalcoholic beers to even fill a buzz and thing. So but then you also have, like, Needs. You have Domino's pizza that actually has a higher content of alcohol when it's rather than than and alcoholic beer. Orange juice has point 0.16 up to 7.9, ABV. So orange juice tech can and can have more than a nonalcoholic beer when it comes to alcohol.

Marcos Salazar [00:42:27]:
So just Realizing that, I think, to your point, like, there are certain products. Like, gluten free doesn't mean gluten free. There are still parts parts of parts of there are some gluten in there. And I think for us, part of our goal as and ANBA and as an industry is we wanna be open to and letting people know what are the ingredients. The second is that I come from a social impact background, and I've worked with a lot of social impact companies consulting and coaching and and event production. And it was really great to transition into this, adult and alcoholic beverage category because all our members are purpose driven, mission driven, sustainability driven. We have tons of members that are b corps and were are on their way to become b corps. That's that's a thing that we're helping to support our members with.

Marcos Salazar [00:43:14]:
So that sustainability isn't actually and transparency is an integral part to the culture and the ethos of ANBA, our members, and the category as a whole.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:43:24]:
Okay. So because you said the word sustainability, and I love the fact that it's they're they are focused on that. So it'll be really interesting at the Natural Products Expo West. Nina, to see how many of them are there. Since what about the sustainability in the packaging? Right? There's there was a big push a couple years ago about the plastic that comes wrapped around all the different, you know, products that are in grocery stores, etcetera. What is what are some of the sustainability standards that your members are following to make sure that they meet those b corp, guidelines.

Marcos Salazar [00:43:59]:
Yeah. And and it's a really it's really interesting from shipping standpoint. I I do think that's obviously gonna vary from brand to brand, and we are gonna be and that's actually gonna be a focus in 2020 is helping our brands to become much more sustainable. I'm talking to a couple partners to help do that and also provide sustainability reports for our members. But one of the things that members have to be aware of, adult monocolic beverage, product producers, is that Because there's no alcohol, it can freeze during shipping. Oh. Right? Like, you could put a bottle of vodka and things in the in the, in the freezer, nonalcoholic beverages could freeze. So the 1st kinda couple year, and, and, When and were shipping, they were some of the products were busting because they were being held too long on the trucks.

Marcos Salazar [00:44:50]:
They just weren't. So so they have to actually have that added layer of thinking about packaging, but it's really interesting as I I purchase a lot of products from our members, And I started to see much more sustainability focused packaging. There are less of those that are using plastic and a number of other things, and they're using some form of cardboard or some kind of recycled catering, and they have to balance that out with making sure that the product, is insulated enough that it's not gonna freeze. So so that is and 1 area. I I think one of the things and this is why this industry membership partnership is really important and we start working with others in the industry is that we wanna work with with vendors and organizations that are starting to support CPG brands to become much more sustainable, not only from, like, the shipping packaging, but the packaging events itself, whether it's bottles, whether it's cans, and or any other type of form of that of the production.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:45:47]:
Awesome. Okay. So have you seen any are there any good case studies that you've shown that some that a hotel, a restaurant, a bar has incorporated this into nonalcoholic adult beverages into their beverage programs that they're like, holy wow. We we should've done this sooner.

Marcos Salazar [00:46:10]:
I think we're at the beginning stages Okay. That. I mean, in in all honesty, for the level of what we would consider a great program, we're just at the beginning stages. I know beginning stages. I know Yeah. Hilton is starting to integrate that and a number of others. There's it's interesting. Like, there's even hotel lounges that are starting to integrate that, But this is just literally over the past, like, 6 months to a year.

Marcos Salazar [00:46:30]:
So I think there's needs to be a bit more time to figure out what those Case studies are, I think in the next few years, we're gonna start mapping out restaurants, bars, hotels, I I think are are who's doing really great, things that then provides a template for other types of of of, Hotels or hospitality based businesses.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:46:53]:
Okay. So what do you see as the future of AMBA?

Marcos Salazar [00:46:59]:
I I one of the

Tracy Stuckrath [00:47:00]:
things we

Marcos Salazar [00:47:00]:
just yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And of the things we just launched last year is, an ANBA in the UK EU. So we have another chapter, in that region and possibly other chapters globally because we wanna help support the overall growth of the category, and, on a global scale, But to that point of government affairs as well as industry standards, we want everybody to offer be operating so that when you go from country to country, Brands know how to navigate and also, label their products properly. It reduces cost and waste, but we also want consumers not to be confused as well. So we know that when they're traveling, especially if they're going to a hotel, they kinda know exactly what they're getting and what what particular, labeling or or naming means.

Marcos Salazar [00:47:45]:
So, so working on a on a global scale is gonna be that first part. K. I think the second is that you've mentioned a couple trade shows, And one of the things that And was doing is really partnering on a very deep level with a lot of the trade shows. So Expo East and their new their new one, Utopia, National Restaurant Association, Barn Restaurant Expo, ParkConway Brooklyn, Fancy Food, kind of the major shows to really, and, have a much greater presence there, but also to educate those communities of buyers to help them understand, one, that there's these amazing options available, How to integrate them and then how does help how the NA can help scale their business and scale their revenue. So that's gonna be another kind of big thing. And I think over the next years, you're gonna start to see penetration in restaurants and bars and hotels and events, much, much more, and we will start getting those to studies. And I think we're at that beginning stages, and then it's gonna start accelerating to the point that if you do not integrate these, You're gonna be left behind. You're gonna be the outlier, and that's where I really see the category going in the next few years.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:48:54]:
Well and that brings me back to a conversation that you and I were having at the beginning of the show. You said Great Britain or the UK just instituted something about that?

Marcos Salazar [00:49:02]:
Yeah. Well, it was just it was just some interesting data from the The brewpub, the the brewpub association in the UKEU. So they kind of are the and pubs in the UKU, and and they kinda issued a pretty dire warning to their membership and kinda overall that if you do not integrate any beverages, it's you're putting your business at risk, and pubs need to integrate more and more of these products because more and more, consumers are looking for these and kinda demanding these. And this isn't just in dry January where your sales are going down. This is across the the year because people and there's more and more data that comes out is that more people try Jan try January this year than ever before, to all of them. People that continue the benefits and kind of the moderation elements of dry January continue throughout the year. And if they do try nonalcoholic beverages, that continues to be in in a regular part of their, drinking behavior throughout the year, whether that is at home or whether that's in any type of establishment.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:50:09]:
Well and it it reminds me on a walk a couple weeks ago, a friend of mine said She and her boyfriend were doing it, and he's like, oh my gosh. I'm sleeping so much better, right, having doing the dry January. Okay. Two more questions, because we're at the 50 minute mark. We could talk all day, Marcos.

Marcos Salazar [00:50:26]:
Absolutely.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:50:29]:
What, are some best practices that you've seen bars do? I mean, I've talked to Lauren Lauren and I've talked to Kate and Jen and Derek. You know, what are best practices that bars and restaurants and hotels can use to incorporate these into into their food and beverage programs. And, you know, we've talked about, you know, hey. Here's the separate nonalcoholic list or incorporating them into the regular list with a little asterisk. Are there other best practices that you've seen?

Marcos Salazar [00:50:59]:
Yes. The first best practice is actually putting it on the menu if you have a nonalcoholic beverage, and that has to that that is the case. Like, there there there and I understand that there's there's financial things you have to take into consideration and redoing a menu, but if you have a handmade beverage, Just put it on the menu. That's and the first the first thing you need to do. The second is is is actually talking with my friend who owns a bar in DC, and I hung out with him at the Michael Drinking Fest weekend. And he was sharing that he had, he carries athletic brewing as one of their options, And he kinda had it at at one part of the menu, and he actually put it at the top in the one of the most prominent way needs on the right side along with saying nonalcoholic options. And he ended up selling, like, 6 to 7 times more any beer just for that. Right? And it's a small it's a small dive bar, but it's still, it was selling infinitely much more.

Marcos Salazar [00:51:57]:
So you need to put it in a in a in a, in a really prominent place. The second is that there's a couple ways to be able to think about it. I would say that you can have a menu, and if you have your cocktail list, You could definitely put that asterisk there, and there could be an NA version of that cocktail. And then you could also create separate or unique cocktails that are directly nonalcoholic, in that option as well. So you actually then provide a plethora. All the alcoholic versions can be made nonalcoholic, and then there's some other really interesting adult nonalcoholic cocktails that you could have as well along with the and with the with the beer and the wine. And you don't wanna put it as an afterthought because if the it is an afterthought, you're treating your, your customers as an afterthought. Again

Tracy Stuckrath [00:52:42]:
Right.

Marcos Salazar [00:52:43]:
94% of people that are purchasing nonalcoholic beverages still drink. They may not wanna drink at the time that they are coming to your establishment.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:52:52]:
That's a huge Chet. And I think that's really, really important, so thank you for resharing that. And I did type it in, and, hopefully, I got the stat right. But I'll fix it if I didn't, but, yeah, that's that's mind blowing. Okay. So my final question that I ask everybody and coming from your perspective, what does a safe, sustainable, and inclusive food and beverage in this particular instance look like to you?

Marcos Salazar [00:53:17]:
You mean, like, in terms of the catering, or can you

Tracy Stuckrath [00:53:21]:
Just what if you were go going out to an event, or dinner, what does that kind of safe, sustainable, and inclusive experience look like to you?

Marcos Salazar [00:53:30]:
Yeah. And and, I mean, it's really funny. You're making me put my event hat on and and Uh-huh. What we used to do when we were doing events in New York City is we always had nonalcoholic beverages that were options for people. We'd also serve wine and sometimes beer. Always kind of food that, Thinking just intentionally. There's only so much, obviously, that you can do, but providing vegan and gluten free options available for people as well. And it's really not super hard, and the reason why is because there's a plethora of options available.

Marcos Salazar [00:54:00]:
And then from a sustainability standpoint, I'm always just thinking about How can you kinda go as 0 waste as possible? And that could be when it comes to the glassware and whether it's compostable or recyclable. It could be, any type of, Plates, meetings, bottles, anything that you're thinking about or possibly using reusable cups. And then the other thing that we would always do at our events is, especially if there's a ticket events is then we would partner with a nonprofit to offset the carbon footprint of every single, attendee as well. So it does take a little bit of time, but I think what you can do is when you put these things into place and you You you're able to communicate with your attendees that you're being very intentional and thoughtful about the event, making sure that you're including and taking into Count as many people as possible, but then that's also that's also creating some some great brand equity for yourself as well and and and showing that you're you're wanting to be sustainable. So that's kinda how I end up thinking about it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:55:01]:
That's awesome. That's very cool. Well, thank you so much, Marcos. I really appreciate this. Lots of great data and reasons to do this, and I and I look forward to seeing what else you, what Amber can do for the for the market and the industry. And let's see. I've got this thing here. Show so you can connect to Marcos on LinkedIn.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:55:20]:
That's his LinkedIn profile. And then, and if you wanna say it, how do people get in touch with you?

Marcos Salazar [00:55:28]:
Yeah. I mean, honestly, LinkedIn is the best place. I'm really gonna dive in deep into LinkedIn this year. I'm gonna be continually posting lots of stats and information, not only kind of about this Catering as as a whole from trends, but also just helping to support other businesses from an entrepreneurial standpoint. So there's that, or you can always if you're looking to learn more about the adult monocoholic beverage category, you can go to n abeverages.org. We'll also be transitioning to a new website. It's we we were able to get the domain, ANBA, a n b a dot org. So we'll be transitioning that, as well, but You can go to anybeverages.org at the moment, and feel free to shoot me a message on, on LinkedIn.

Marcos Salazar [00:56:08]:
I'm happy to happy to connect and support in any way.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:56:11]:
Awesome. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I I think it's a vibrant market that that properties meeting planners need to take advantage of, you know, going forward to create that inclusive experience. So, everybody, thank you for tuning in. The those people on LinkedIn, Wendy and Courtney and Lacy, etcetera. Thank you so much for being here. And then Kate and the 2 alpha gals, I really appreciate you being here as well.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:56:35]:
So, everyone, until next to Tyme. We're here every Wednesday, at 12 o'clock EST, talking to experts just like Marcos on a variety of different things that pertain to eating at a meeting. And if you wanna reach out to me, reach out you can find me on thrive meetings and or you can join the, that's Marcos. You can join the catering at a meeting, Facebook group as well. So Until then, stay safe and eat well. And, Marco, stay on with me for a few minutes. Okay? Thanks so much, everybody. You're welcome.