309: Safe, Sober, & Inclusive: How Zero-Proof Bev Are Changing the F&B Industry

Tracy Stuckrath [00:00:06]:
Hey everybody and welcome to another episode of Eating at a Meeting. And I need to be back in my office and to be chatting with this wonderful woman to the left of me. We're going to talk. This is Laura Silverman and she's the founder of Zero Proof Nation and Booze Free in D.C. and she's been sober for 17 years and we're going to talk about what she's created having been sober for 17 years, what you've done with that. And we've got, you've got a lot of fans already. Monty's here.

Laura Silverman [00:00:38]:
Monty, he's a CPG brand designer. Really great. I think he's in San Clemente or San something in California. Okay, you put it in the chat, Monty, let us know. But yeah, I have a lot of friends in this ecosystem.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:00:52]:
Awesome. That's fantastic. Which is really huge because I mean, let's just talk to, let's get go from the very beginning. What inspired. Because you've been sober for 17 years, so you were in your 20s. We'll just say that.

Laura Silverman [00:01:05]:
Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:01:06]:
And what, what inspired you one to go sober and to start Zero Proof Nation across and to where we are today.

Laura Silverman [00:01:17]:
Yeah, so I didn't really have inspo to go sober. I was, I was going down a dark path. And so rather than, rather than being sober, curious or wanting to be a mindful drinker because there weren't any non alcoholic options then that, that existed and certainly they weren't on my radar even if they, if, if there were any like there wasn't much on my radar in the, in the first place. But I, I faced two hospitalizations for alcohol poisoning in 18 months from age 22 and a half ish to 24. And my parents didn't really know what was going on. They were living overseas at the time. My father is a retired US diplomat and yeah, so I was, I was a bit of a train wreck and I needed professional help and I got really lucky because I was relatively unscathed both times. But I was definitely very affected mentally, emotionally, spiritually as it were.

Laura Silverman [00:02:22]:
And I knew that I couldn't, I couldn't keep going down that path. So I had to seek professional help and I did. And I went to an intensive outpatient program at age 24 by my own volition. Nobody forced me to. I wanted to get help and I didn't think in terms of forever, but I knew that I couldn't keep drinking alcohol the way that I was. And I also knew that my social life was over as I knew it There was no more fun. So that's kind of where I was in 2007. I had to.

Laura Silverman [00:02:52]:
I chose life, but I also faced a different kind of death, and that was the death of a social life. And so.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:03:00]:
Which is very sad, I know.

Laura Silverman [00:03:03]:
Yeah, it is. It's just disappointing that that's what it was back then, but that's what it was. For any kind of industry to exist, there had to be a beginning somewhere. And so I think there, there was always some innovation that was going on in non alcoholic beverages, but just at a, like a glacial rate. And there weren't. Obviously we would fast forward many years to get to the pandemic, which is where we see like this exponential increase in beverage makers. And there were a lot of reasons for that. There was a mental health pandemic too.

Laura Silverman [00:03:39]:
And then there were a lot of regulations that beverage manufacturers were facing where they couldn't send alcohol or they couldn't produce. There are a lot of reasons why non alcoholic beverages became so big, really, starting in 2020, but there were a lot of things going on behind the scenes for several years before that. And getting back to your original question, and my mind goes like, no, you're good. What inspired me to start Zero Proof Nation? Well, a little bit of my, My backstory, my. My superhero origin story, which is that I had to be completely sober for me, but I wanted to have fun. I. I am a fun person. I, if I do say so myself, and do karaoke.

Laura Silverman [00:04:22]:
I wanted to go to happy hours. I wanted to go to New York New Year's Eve parties. And I love music festivals and concerts. And I was in a lot of weddings. I went to a lot of weddings and there was never any kind of thing, any kind of beverage that was catered to people like me or, let's be honest, anyone who just didn't want to drink that much, who was pregnant.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:04:44]:
Besides soda and a bottle of water. Yeah.

Laura Silverman [00:04:47]:
Why someone might not choose to drink alcohol. And, and so, so I've always been a consumer first and foremost. And, and I always wanted options for those social situations that I would go to. Now, in the first year of my sobriety, I really, I really didn't go to bars. I, I was nursing my sobriety to make sure that I could stay stable in it. I could, I could continue it, but it was really after a year that I felt pretty, like, grounded. And this is what I wanted to. This is how I wanted to live my life.

Laura Silverman [00:05:20]:
And now let me go live my life. And I didn't have diet Coke or club soda wherever I went. So Zero Proof Nation is sort of a direct response to me wanting selfishly, some kind of all in one resource that didn't already exist, where I could find places, I could find beverages, I could connect with people. And there are a couple of people out there that might remember I had a blog called the Sobriety Collective that I started in 2015. I kept it going, going for about four years and it was sort of an alt sobriety, alt recovery blog. I say that it wasn't rooted in 12 steps. It was, it was not an anonymous program and it wasn't a program, it was a community. I wanted to meet other people around the world who might have recovered in a different way, who might have stayed sober in a different way, and who were not anonymous about their stories and wanted to share drink options, all of those things.

Laura Silverman [00:06:20]:
And as I've said before, I, I have, I have adhd. I'm a creep. And I, I felt like my creative juices were kind of starting to just run out of steam there. And I was interested in this growing, growing scene of beverages that I would say in 2017-2019 there was something brewing, pun intended, there.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:06:43]:
Right?

Laura Silverman [00:06:43]:
New beverages. There were people that were doing pop ups. I mean, Chris Marshall from Sans Bar and Lorelei Androvsky, I can never pronounce her last name of Lissenbar. And Laura Willoughby of Club Soda in the uk. They were all doing things long before it was cool. And I was talking about these types of beverages long before it was cool. I'll also say that Derek Brown, Derek Spinette, yep, yep, Derrick Brown, when he had the Columbia Room in dc, he had a really robust, thoughtful menu of non alcoholic cocktails that were not afterthoughts. And that was really the only place I could go to in D.C.

Laura Silverman [00:07:22]:
where I could get something that I felt catered to. And no one ever asked. Well, that doesn't have alcohol in it. Can't tell you how many times I go to places and I order something non alcoholic knowingly. I knowingly order this and they're like, it doesn't have alcohol, right? Yes, I know. That's why I ordered it. So really the fall of 2019 was when I had this, this idea to do two things at once because I need two different projects. I wanted to go hyperlocal with DC and maybe I could do like a travel guide to the D.C.

Laura Silverman [00:07:54]:
area from a non alcoholic perspective. There were things that were happening. There were brands like Mocktail Club, Woman owned. Paul Go has been doing phenomenal things. And she's got nationwide distribution now. I'm incredibly proud of her. During the pandemic, I was a Focus group of 1. We tried some different formulations in her backyard.

Laura Silverman [00:08:13]:
And, and, and she, she just, she's done some great things. Charlie Birkenshaw of Element Shrub, he was doing these, these Shrub cocktails long before people really even understood what any of that was. And so, and along with Derek Brown, there was a scene going on in D.C. and so I was like, well, let me start a travel guide to the DC area, but also let me see what's going on nationally and internationally as sort of a, a non alcoholic resource hub. So I launched Zero Proof Nation in fall of 2019 and booze free in D.C. in January of 2020. And then everything happened in March of 2020. And that's where I will put a pause in it for additional questions or follow ups.

Laura Silverman [00:08:56]:
That's how it all began.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:08:58]:
No, that is awesome. And it really has grown since 1719. But Covid really has. Has sparked a thing. And when you look at statistics, they'll probably tell you that it's still a small contingency of the beverage world. Right? But the increase in the amount of beverages that have come on the market because of that is huge. Right? That's growing dramatically now. What is that? A Jazz.

Laura Silverman [00:09:28]:
That's Jazz. This is a woman owned company, graduate of the Darden School of Business, UVA Darden. And I'm a UVA graduate. Cecilia Rios de Morieta, speaking of her story month. This is Jazz's Mojito fresco, their newest skew. And it's got some yerba mate in it. And I wrote a review on my substack a couple of weeks ago. It's the best RTD mojito I've ever had.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:09:56]:
Really?

Laura Silverman [00:09:56]:
Period.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:09:57]:
Wow.

Laura Silverman [00:09:57]:
Yeah. So highly recommend. Highly recommend this. Cheers, everyone.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:10:02]:
Cheers. I don't have one in front of me. I should have got. I just got home from the airport, so. That is refreshing. Good. All right. Hey, Tawny.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:10:11]:
Laura said hello. Love your life, ma'. Am.

Laura Silverman [00:10:14]:
So live your life, mommy. I know how she's. Oh, I read it wrong. Live your life, mommy. Yes, yes. She's one of my.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:10:23]:
I need to read.

Laura Silverman [00:10:24]:
She's the author of Dry Humping, which all about super dating and that was it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:10:31]:
She was at the comp. The. The festival last year, right? Or was that this year?

Laura Silverman [00:10:35]:
Yeah, that last year and this year. And she's also the co founder with her husband of a brand called Parentheses. It's botanical spirit doubling as an Aperitif and digestif combo. It's using like, forgive me if I get this wrong, but like seaweed and kelp vinegars and all sorts of interesting things that it's. It's different than anything else that's on the market. She would be a phenomenal guest for you.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:10:58]:
Okay, awesome. Tawny, wait for me to reach out. Yeah. Yep. And I'm sorry I missed last year. Something came up and I couldn't come, but it's okay.

Laura Silverman [00:11:06]:
It can happen next year in the year after. Right, Right.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:11:10]:
And it keeps getting better, so I'm so excited about it. Okay. So a lot has happened in the last five years, six years. Right. Since this is so the. And. And I've talked to. Oh, what's his name from that non Alcoholic Beverage Association.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:11:27]:
Marcos. Yes. So we. He and I have talked about the. The skyrocketing numbers that are happening. And. But it's still kind of slow when you're coming, when you're talking about events. Right.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:11:40]:
I mean, you might be able to get into in a bar and write. And those mixologists and those bartenders are really kind of doing it. I did go to a restaurant in Denver this past weekend and it was great. They had. They had six cocktails that are pre designed on the menu. They had N A next to each one of them or from next to two of the six. Okay. And I, Monty, just loved your product placement.

Laura Silverman [00:12:04]:
Yes, I saw it. Lol.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:12:06]:
That's awesome. But what. What confused me about it is because at the bottom of the menu it said gluten free and vegan. They had the GF and the V next to it. And so they had the NA next to that. Well, I made the assumption that those two were NAs, but it said at the very top of the menu by request. And so I ordered it and it came fully loaded.

Laura Silverman [00:12:28]:
Oh, my word.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:12:30]:
Yeah. And so I'm like, Jason, I didn't want the alcohol in this.

Laura Silverman [00:12:34]:
And it said NA next to it. And it still arrived fully loaded.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:12:37]:
Yes, but the na. But. And so it's the. As my friend Kayla said, The nom. The nomature of labels, whatever that word is.

Laura Silverman [00:12:48]:
Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:12:49]:
Nomenclature of labeling on menus. Because the. The GF and the V were next to the foods that were gluten free and vegan. And so I just made the assumption that if the NA is next to it, that it would be na.

Laura Silverman [00:13:01]:
That's an assumption that I think anyone would make if they see that. So there's a lot. There's a. First of all, I'm so sorry that that happened to you. And even I would be even more sorry if like you were fully sober and that happened.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:13:13]:
Right.

Laura Silverman [00:13:13]:
Because that does happen to a lot of people that I know. And I here I am with product placement, with intros, with people. But I would talk to Beth Harbinson of SO Bar. She is behind the scenes putting together a training program so that things like this don't happen anymore. So that people are educated as bar staff, as rest managers. Like there needs to be some consistency. And if something says it's na, it should be N A And if someone orders something, pour it at their, at the table so that they know that you're not just giving them a beer that you got from a draft.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:13:50]:
Right.

Laura Silverman [00:13:50]:
It could be anything. So.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:13:52]:
Well, and when with all these brands coming out, you don't necessarily know what all the non alcoholic gins are or the spirits and things like that. So there's so many brands coming out there, there's no way that I would have known if that was real or not.

Laura Silverman [00:14:05]:
Right.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:14:05]:
And I say real, but you know.

Laura Silverman [00:14:07]:
What I mean, Traditional with.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:14:08]:
Right? Yeah, yeah.

Laura Silverman [00:14:10]:
And I mean well also say like you were talking about events and conferences, weddings and of course like the rest of hospitality, like airlines, hotels, all of that. There's, there's still a long way to go with getting these beverages more widely accepted and adopted. But I've seen more cruise lines adopt NA beverages and I think like conferences and events, that's the next frontier because.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:14:38]:
Yeah.

Laura Silverman [00:14:39]:
I can't tell you how many. Like back in the day when I was doing a lot of substance use disorder advocacy and mental health advocacy work, I would go to these conferences and there would be open bars with like liquor at mental health or addiction conference, which just did not track.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:14:55]:
That's really crazy.

Laura Silverman [00:14:58]:
Yes.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:15:00]:
Yeah. All right, so I want to bring one. One of my questions is about this map because you started in D.C. and then. And I want to pull it up. Let me see if I can.

Laura Silverman [00:15:09]:
Yeah, get fancy.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:15:10]:
Yeah, let's see. Share screen.

Laura Silverman [00:15:13]:
And for everyone else still watching.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:15:15]:
Hi.

Laura Silverman [00:15:16]:
If you're my friends, I love you. And if you're Tracy's friends. Hi, nice to meet you. Please pop something in the chat.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:15:22]:
Yes, please do. I need, actually I need to put that banner down there. If you've got questions, ask them in the chat. Okay, so here is your map. So when you designed this, how did, what, what was revealed to you about the growth and the gaps in the movement of this non alcohol movement? Because you started with D.C. but then you're like okay, let's do it internationally. But what have you seen? Oh wow. And I zoom out.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:15:50]:
Look at all the one. Bless you mom.

Laura Silverman [00:15:52]:
Bless you mom. Yeah and you can, to really get the full functionality of it, you can open it up in Google Maps and. Oh wow. So if you just press that button that says scroll down a tiny bit. Scroll your screen down a little.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:16:07]:
Oh, open in Google Maps. Yeah. Okay.

Laura Silverman [00:16:09]:
And so that's the, that's the full functionality. So you can sort by different types of categories. You can with the search bar up there you can look for a particular state or city. And so, so where, where it sort of began and where it is now. I have actually just hired a VA because I can't keep up with the map. People keep, people keep asking me to update it. They keep asking me to put their locations on there and, and, and those are the people that know that this exists. There are other people doing, doing really innovative things in the non alcoholic scene that don't even know this map exists.

Laura Silverman [00:16:47]:
So they right not know about everything. But so suffice it to say I would say it's about 85% fully accurate right now. There's a lot of things that just aren't on there yet. But basically I started on, on the website on Zero Proof Nation as putting together directories of bottle shops and bars where it was just kind of a scrolling, scrolling page of logos. If you go to like exactly this like it was. And it started very small because there weren't a lot of bottle shops and bars in 2021. But it really started expanding and so I had everything all together in one thing. It was just all of the world's stuff on one page.

Laura Silverman [00:17:31]:
And then I realized that that was not going to suffice because people needed to know where things were. So then I categorized it by the US categorized it by global. If you scroll down even more down here. Okay, now back to that page you were just on. Then you go to an international. You were there. You were almost there.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:17:50]:
Oh, I was almost there. Okay. This.

Laura Silverman [00:17:52]:
Oh wow. I need to. Yep. Something happened and I've got to change that. There's much blank space but these are all the na bottle shops around the world. And so I mean we're talking New Zealand to Switzerland to the UK to Singapore. There's, there's stuff everywhere. France, Germany.

Laura Silverman [00:18:11]:
And so I realized in doing this that this was getting to be very big. It was growing at an incredible pace and it wasn't really user friendly in my mind to just kind of scroll down a list. I said to myself, why not map it out and see what this dry economy looks like on a global map. And so I had been documenting like I said, these bottle shops and, and booze free bars or pop ups. And so I started this map. I had actually done a couple of road trip virtual road trips in the pandemic where I would do like a east coast middle of the US and west coast road trip of different bottle shops and bars. And it was so tiny then that you could just like pop a few logos on, on the map of the US and, and your road trip. But it got so big that you just couldn't see any of the logos anymore.

Laura Silverman [00:19:14]:
So then I decided I would just make this a map and every single location would have a pin to it. What makes this I think more unique than just a traditional Google map is that most Google Maps are, are obviously like they are location based. You have to have a Google Maps entry like you have to have a Google my business entry. But I think that there were a lot of E commerce bottle shops and a lot of pop ups and mobile mixologists that were doing things and they have a place on the map too. So this is a combination of not just brick and mortar locations but also and e commerce stores that are perhaps regionalized to a particular state or a couple of countries or something in Europe. And, and it's just kind of grown and grown and grown and grown. We're literally on six of seven continents. There's nothing in Antarctica yet.

Laura Silverman [00:20:09]:
I joke about having some researchers open up a bar or a bottle shop, but someone did bring some, one of my friends who, who has a pop up bar in, in Dallas. She actually brought the, the bitters that I created with Ian Blessing and his team over at all the bitter. She brought that with her on a cruise to Antarctica. So technically. And eight beverages have hit all seven. That's so fun. Oh, thank you Mary. Therese or Therese.

Laura Silverman [00:20:38]:
She says this is an incredible resource. Also highlights where the hub areas are and what areas are growing hopefully. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, exactly.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:20:47]:
Yes.

Laura Silverman [00:20:47]:
It's a growing as you can see it's growing. And every single logo, you can zoom in a little bit more to see what they look like. But every, every place has a different type of logo whether it's like a brick and neighbor shop or E commerce store or a pop up. I just also added a couple of new categories. The two bottom categories, NA Friendly shops and N A Forward hospitality. Those have the most opportunity to grow right now. Those are places the NA Friendly Shops are places that aren't just non alcoholic bottle shops. They might be like sundry stores or like home goods that have a nice selection of NA there.

Laura Silverman [00:21:26]:
And I'm starting to collect information from different people about different shops. My vision for NA forward hospitality is. I mean there's so much more than what I put there. But it has part somewhere. I'm looking for like restaurants that have restaurants and bars that have just as many non elk options as they have.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:21:45]:
You can add Cypress hall here in New Bern, North Carolina to that list.

Laura Silverman [00:21:49]:
Cypress hall, you said?

Tracy Stuckrath [00:21:50]:
Yes. C Y P R E S S. Writing that down.

Laura Silverman [00:21:54]:
Yeah, please, if you wouldn't mind introing me to the.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:21:57]:
I can do that. Yeah.

Laura Silverman [00:21:58]:
I can learn about what they're doing. But you know like Michelin star restaurants that have NA pairing menus, that kind of thing.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:22:04]:
Oh cool.

Laura Silverman [00:22:05]:
Yeah, that's what I'm looking for in that category. And yeah, I mean there are plans to repurpose the map and into other types of content too.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:22:14]:
Yeah, no, that's awesome. So when. Yeah, in Cypress hall really does a good job. I mean they probably have like 10 drinks on their menu and they put a little like time icon next to it like the. The herb. Right. And saying these can be made N A. Okay.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:22:34]:
And. And the one of them I love is called what's up Doc? And it's carrots and carrots. Carrots. Yes it is. I love that. And with jalapeno and it's really delicious. It's more of a summertime drink that they have. But I do love it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:22:48]:
But when you were doing that, were there any gaps that you were finding? I mean, I know there's a pop up in Austin. I know there was a store in Raleigh, but I think it closed. But I don't know, somebody may have Raleigh.

Laura Silverman [00:23:01]:
Raleigh, Raleigh. So I used to know about every single place in the world, which I.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:23:06]:
Don'T think it was. Umbrella Dry Bar.

Laura Silverman [00:23:08]:
Oh, Umbrella Dry Bar. That's right. She's. She's still. Meg. Still exists. Okay. But I think she's doing a pop up now.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:23:16]:
Okay.

Laura Silverman [00:23:17]:
For a brick and mortar location. Umbrella is still there. But not. Not. You're right. Not in the sense that it was before. Yeah, the gaps, the original gaps were kind of everything that is not covered by a coast. So the east coast was booming.

Laura Silverman [00:23:35]:
Really booming. Especially New York. I mean New York City is kind of like the hub of what it all started in the U.S. right. Spirited away. I think you've had Douglas on the show too, right?

Tracy Stuckrath [00:23:47]:
No waiting to get. Yes.

Laura Silverman [00:23:49]:
Okay. Douglas and Victoria, they started spirited away in 2020 and there's so much that's going on, whether it's pop ups or brick and mortar bars, bottle shops there. DC is really growing too. You know, we've got a couple of now we have a couple of booze free bars and we've got bottle shops in D.C. and Maryland. And then of course you would think that LA would have been one of the first to hop on this, but it took them a little while. Now they've got tons going on there. So you'd see the coasts.

Laura Silverman [00:24:19]:
There was a lot. And then of course you had Sands Bar in Austin. But there was a lot that was missing in the middle of the country and the Midwest was starting to grow pretty quickly. There's a lot going on in the Midwest. Indiana, Chicago, Canada came out of, they came out of the woodwork and there's a lot going on in Canada. Certainly geographically speaking there, there's a gap in Africa. There's just not a lot going on there. But there is an alcohol free bar in Ghana called Eden Bar, Australia and Oceania.

Laura Silverman [00:24:52]:
That's a big area that I mean literally. But also in terms of na, there's a lot going on with bottle shops and bars. Europe, of course, like not sure if you knew this, but the UK was kind of like the, the epicenter of all of this.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:25:07]:
Oh, oh.

Laura Silverman [00:25:09]:
Club Soda has been doing a lot with mindful drinking. It's an organization that has a, now a brick and mortar tasting room and bar bottle shop in, in London. But as an organization they were putting on festivals, classes, meetups for years and of course the very first luxury and a spirit botanical spirit seed Lip by and his team that came out of the uk. There's, there's. The UK has really kind of been the leader in this and of course we're Americans like today, bigger flutter, faster, all of that. So we've, we've definitely caught up steam. But I would say the gaps are filling in certainly. And the issue that a lot of folks are finding is just as it is in any economy, when you have big box stores or chain restaurants and you're a mom and pop shop retailer or you're a mom and pop shop restaurant, it is hard to compete with, with that.

Laura Silverman [00:26:11]:
And not to say that there's not a need for. I, I do shop on Amazon, but if I'm able to shop locally and if I'm able to shop from small business, even more right. Will do that. So I think there's, there's A need for, for both in a lot of ways. But I think a lot of the indie retailers and folks who are running their own hospitality businesses are, are struggling a little bit. And, and so I'm just going to give the perfect segue into this, this bitter coffee, cherry coffee bitters that I, that I put together with y. With the, with all the bitter. So.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:26:50]:
Right.

Laura Silverman [00:26:50]:
These are only available at. At a friendly retailers across the country. That's not on Amazon, it's not at Big Box, it's not at like Total Wine. More as a way to get foot traffic to these independent retailers and, and support small business and support local. And when you I guess send, send out follow up information. Oh, there it is. That's it. You're so good, Tracy.

Laura Silverman [00:27:16]:
You are prepared. I mean I made a cocktail for everyone and I was thinking after I made it, yeah, it could benefit from a little bit of lemon actually to like.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:27:26]:
Oh yeah.

Laura Silverman [00:27:27]:
Brighten things up because I realized I had a cold brew shandy recently and I wasn't expecting how good lemon and coffee were together, but I think I would add like a squeeze of lemon to this to the top. So maybe we can just edit that and.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:27:41]:
Right, okay.

Laura Silverman [00:27:42]:
It's called the Berry Bright Eyed and it's a cocktail for everyone who wants it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:27:47]:
Let me see if I can get down. It won't go bigger for some reason.

Laura Silverman [00:27:51]:
Oh, that's all good. Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:27:52]:
Yeah. But I can share it out. Yeah.

Laura Silverman [00:27:55]:
Okay. I don't fancy myself as much of a mixologist, but I do like to play a mad scientist in the kitchen and I think this came out pretty good. And like I said I would add a squeeze of lemon to it, but it basically is a way to, to showcase these new bitters that we, that we put together but also bring in, bring in some other brands from, from the NA World and, and it's decaf coffee by the way, so you can have espresso tonic at night and it's not going to mess up your sleep.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:28:26]:
Okay, awesome. Well, I not a coffee drinker so I'll have to find something to change that from too. But yes, yes.

Laura Silverman [00:28:34]:
Okay.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:28:34]:
Yes, it's okay.

Laura Silverman [00:28:35]:
No, well, don't worry about me. Yes, I. But you could always use all the bitter aromatic bitters. That would go nicely as well. So. And if you, and if you have like Angostura bitters at home or something that has like, like baking spices, you can, I think you could even get by with like some vanilla as well. But I think it needs something that has like helps with rounding Things out.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:28:57]:
Right, Right. Yeah. And that's important because I think even the drink that I had the other day and it had beets in it and a couple of other things, it was very earthy.

Laura Silverman [00:29:07]:
Yeah. Earthy, yes. Wow.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:29:10]:
And. But I think that when somebody, I don't know if I was talking to somebody about the pricing of stuff, I'm like, but it's a curated. It's a curated non alcoholic beverage, so I'm willing to pay the price. And Kate from Zero Proof Collective. Yes, we've talked about this. Like it's curated. And I'm willing. She's like, why are you gonna only charge me five bucks for it? Right.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:29:33]:
I mean, when. If you're using the same. If you're using non alcoholic gin or whatever, those prices are the same as. Some of those prices are the same as a regular bottle of gin. And like regular meaning alcoholic bottle of gin.

Laura Silverman [00:29:47]:
Yeah.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:29:47]:
So you should be charging me for that for your cost of that. Right?

Laura Silverman [00:29:52]:
Yeah. Costs very little. But that's what people. People assume just kind of associate a higher price point with the alcohol by volume content. But many of these, not just the spirits, but if you're looking at non alcoholic wine and beer to go through a dealqualization process or to. Or to source the right kinds of yeast that, that provide, like arrested fermentation, it is a more costly and more involved process. And it's going to. As a result, the end consumer will have to.

Laura Silverman [00:30:23]:
Should have to pay more because it's a more costly process to create. And oftentimes, not all the time, but oftentimes these beverages are healthier. Can't say, I mean, I think, like, I think they are healthier just by virtue of not having alcohol. But they can be loaded with sugar, they can be loaded with preservatives. And so I caution anyone to be a discerning. A discerning customer and read, read labels, make sure you.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:30:49]:
Exactly. Well, and then Derek just put out a story or an article on his substack too. Is like, we need alcohol labeling. And I had two podcast episodes talking about that because we label our food for allergens and things like that. All right, Monty just piped in. And Monty, thank you for piping in. I've been making whiskey sours with Monday's whiskey, atb, cherry coffee, bitters, lemon and maple syrup. I thought he's addicted to it.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:31:13]:
That sounds very good.

Laura Silverman [00:31:14]:
I'm gonna add lemon now for sure.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:31:15]:
Yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah, yeah. Thank you for sharing that.

Laura Silverman [00:31:19]:
Thanks, Monty. That sounds really good. I'll have to try that too.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:31:22]:
Yeah. Okay. So as a woman in this industry, in the food and in the beverage industry, you know how, and, and to me you're leading this and you're leading this with this website and the knowledge that you have, have you had any challenges and, and it's, I'm going to say it's an old boy school because of the, the liquor industry in itself. Right. So how has that. Being a woman in this industry and bringing NA into this, how have that, how has that impacted you?

Laura Silverman [00:31:54]:
I think it's actually way more subtle and subversive than I can give like a blanket answer for because I'm not actually working behind the bar. I'm not, I don't own an establishment. And I know that a lot of my friends who are women have faced, have faced some things that they have to, they have to go through more hoops than, than a man would. I think one of the things that I've faced as a solopreneur in sort of the media building business or the, or the journalistic community building, I don't even know what you call what I do, but I think some of the things that I've faced have been more sort of self imposed, holding myself back imposter syndrome that a lot of women as a result of living in this society. Not necessarily because someone told me I couldn't do X, Y and Z, but because there just aren't in my view enough opportunities for women still. We're working on it. We're knocking on a lot of doors and by the way, women kind of run the non alcoholic industry. I mean there are a lot of fantastic men and certainly a lot of fantastic non binary folks too.

Laura Silverman [00:33:05]:
But there are so many women founders and women owners and women bar owners and women are really leading the way and so I would love to see more. I was sad to learn about Distill Ventures incubator kind of going away and I would love to see more incubators that can, that can help women founders. I know that Pauline has done something with like a Kate Spade incubator for business women, but that's for brand owners and I think it would be great to see, I think it'd be great to see some kind of incubator or community for, for women in the space that may not have a beverage business. Ways for there to be community and for there to be resource sharing, transparency, not gatekeeping. I want to shout out Sam Bale who is the founder of Third Place Bar in New York City and she started a Slack channel for business owners, not brands, but business owners in the NA space to have transparency and knowledge sharing and community of practice. And, and I think it's a really, it's a really great way for people to learn from each other and to learn about different kind of pricing structures and what's, what's doing well and can you help me figure out different types of events or whatever? So I think more opportunities, more opportunities the better. And I would just like to tell future me and past me, like it can be, it can be challenging and especially if you're facing any kind of like mental health issues, it can be, it can be challenging. So I just, I need to be done with the imposter syndrome and just take, take the reins.

Laura Silverman [00:34:54]:
Yeah, I think that there are a lot of like subtle ways that women hold themselves back in this industry.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:35:01]:
So I just posted two interviews. One I did with Lauren from Spiritless and one that I did with Naughty, the founder of Naughty.

Laura Silverman [00:35:11]:
Oh, Amanda.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:35:12]:
Yeah, Amanda, yes.

Laura Silverman [00:35:13]:
Yeah, she's fantastic. But they both are and I love both of their brands. So there are, like I said, there are a lot of women in this space that are doing great things and I would also love to shout out Taylor Foxman of the industry collective. She is a badass businesswoman. She advises beverage companies that are in the elk and non elk space. She's a super connector just like me. So she, she really helps. She actually does have a like a female founders call that happens I think once a month or once every other month.

Laura Silverman [00:35:47]:
I just haven't been able to, to go to it because I have a full time job which I'm on my lunch break from and have to get back to.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:35:53]:
Yes, we have like, I think like five more minutes. We do. So one of the things that I want to, that I found really interesting in a lot of the things that you talk about too is the fact that we're not trying to say get rid of alcohol. So how do we balance the promoting of mindful drinking without alienating those who still drink? And what's the, the message that you want people to hear?

Laura Silverman [00:36:17]:
It's interesting because I am, I'm sober, I'm booze free. I, I don't engage in mindful drinking, but I do kind of play a sober, curious, mindful drinker on TV in the sense that I think, I think the message of moderation is more impactful than the message of prohibition. And I, I have friends and family that still drink alcohol, but they drink a lot less knowing, knowing that what alcohol is it's an indulgence. It's a drug, but it's, it's an indulgence. So it's not something that is adding to health, but I eat that doesn't add to my health, but I enjoy it. So knowing that and they also know what I've been through. And so that also informs their habits a bit too. But, but I think, like I, like I said, Prohibition strikes a more austere message than moderation.

Laura Silverman [00:37:14]:
And I think just encouraging, I mean, following Derek's work is fantastic. Just encouraging mindful consumption. Another fabulous person in this industry that I love, she's French and she lives in the uk. Her name is Camille Vidal and her Instagram is Mindfully Kami. And she talks a lot about mindful drinking and she taught me these terms a few years ago before people were talking about bookending and zebra striping.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:37:46]:
Okay, what is that?

Laura Silverman [00:37:47]:
Okay, zebra striping is alternating alcoholic, non alcoholic, alcoholic, non alcoholic. And bookending is starting your night and ending your night with non alcoholic. And maybe you drink one or two alcoholic beverages in the middle, but you start and end with Naomi. And so there are just different ways to incorporate mindful drinking into one's lifestyle and whether that means that one night someone might alternate and one night someone might just drink N a altogether.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:38:15]:
Right.

Laura Silverman [00:38:16]:
But it's, it's encouraging that it's not about drinking alcohol mindfully and that like, ooh, I love how the burn affects me. I love how I'm getting like, it's, it's more about being, being aware of consumption and aware of resources and education out there. And I think everyone can benefit from having more non alcoholic beverages in their lives however they choose to identify 100%.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:38:43]:
And I did have an event I produced last year and a guy was zebra striping and he said, I'm like, oh, he came up and ordered the non alcoholic beer. The athletic. And he's like, no, I've got to make sure that I'm up and, and viable at 2am when we're still in the bar. And so I'm, I'm alternating between the two.

Laura Silverman [00:39:02]:
He was up at still up at 2:00am wow.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:39:04]:
Oh, no. This was at six, this was at 7:00pm and he knew he was going to be up until 2. And I'm like, okay, brave. Not great for you. Exactly. Not fun. Okay, so one, one final question because we've got like a minute left for your lunch break and so I'm so glad that you're spending your lunch break with me. Where do you think, where do you hope that the beverage industry looks like in five years from now as it relates to choice, equity and inclusion?

Laura Silverman [00:39:31]:
Such a great question. I would hope that NA is just as prevalent as a. That there are as many non alcoholic options on a menu as there are alcoholic options. And whether or not I think that's possible right now versus five years, like, I think, I think there is space to have more robust menus, not just in places of hospitality and certainly not just in places that are considered fine dining. But dive bars, like every dive bar should have a couple of NA beer options. Every dive bar should have a couple of gin and tonics that are made with NA spirits. I want to see more in, in travel. I want to see more in cruises, airports, airlines.

Laura Silverman [00:40:20]:
I. There's. I mean, there's a lot, there's.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:40:24]:
Right.

Laura Silverman [00:40:25]:
There's a lot that I'd love to see.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:40:26]:
I think.

Laura Silverman [00:40:26]:
Yeah, we're already seeing some shifts in the types of beverages. Non alcoholic THC beverages are taking off. I mean, they're, they've got a lot of steam. And there might be different types of beverages that don't exist yet that are coming. So we'll, we'll see where, where, where things take us, but I definitely want to see more options available wherever one goes. And support your local non alcohol shop.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:40:52]:
Yeah. All right. I have one question to, to run off of the tangent of that. I talked to a guy that works in an airport. He runs bars in airports. And he's like, well, why am I going to take the Tito's off the shelf when I can make so much more money using that than putting in a non alcoholic?

Laura Silverman [00:41:07]:
Because he's thinking about it differently. He's thinking about his margins differently. And there are a lot of fantastic na tequilas and mezcals out there that are pricey. Tomo. No, Tomo is made in Oaxaca and it's fantastic. And it's, it's a, it's a premium liquid. It's not just. It's not a rail.

Laura Silverman [00:41:29]:
I don't know if Tito's is considered premium or rail. I don't even know because I'm not like, I don't order these things, but you can price higher. He doesn't have to think of an NA beverage as being a $3 thing. And no one's telling him to take it off the shelf, but we're asking him to add something to the shelf.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:41:47]:
Well, and his, his argument is that he has. Because he's in an airport, he has tiny shelves. So. Yeah, give me a number.

Laura Silverman [00:41:55]:
Let Me talk.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:41:56]:
I will, I will, I will. Okay. You are a rock star. I love what you're doing and I appreciate what you're doing, because I haven't been drinking since 2019, so I really do appreciate what you are doing. And I need to create my own cocktails at home, too. So this is Laura Silverman. We were talking about safe, super and inclusive. And you can get connect with her on LinkedIn.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:42:18]:
There is her LinkedIn profile and. Yes, exactly. And then Zero Proof Nation on Instagram and ZeroProof Nation dot com.

Laura Silverman [00:42:27]:
Yep. So absolutely use the website. It's got a lot of juicy.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:42:31]:
Knop is awesome. Yeah.

Laura Silverman [00:42:33]:
Yes.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:42:34]:
So cool.

Laura Silverman [00:42:35]:
Thank you, Tracy. Thank you, ma'.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:42:36]:
Am.

Laura Silverman [00:42:36]:
You're welcome to be here. Thank you, everyone, for joining. I'll see you soon. And back to work I go.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:42:42]:
All right. Back to work you go.

Laura Silverman [00:42:43]:
Thank you.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:42:44]:
All right, bye.

Laura Silverman [00:42:45]:
Thank you so much. Bye.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:42:46]:
You're welcome. Bye. Please go back and listen to all of these herstory stories that these women that I've interviewed for Women's Herstory Month this month. So I think there's seven of them total, and they are all fantastic women that are making a mark in food and beverage in a variety of different capacities. Some of them are with events and some of them are not. But they also actually they kind of all produce their own events. So thank you so much for tuning in. And until next time, stay safe and eat well.

Laura Silverman [00:43:14]:
Thanks.

Tracy Stuckrath [00:43:17]:
Thanks for listening to the Eating at a Meeting podcast where every meal matters. I'm Tracy Stuckrath, your food and beverage inclusion expert. Call me and let's get started right now on creating safe and incorporated inclusive food and beverage experiences for your customers, your employees, and your communities. Share the podcast with your friends and colleagues at our Eating at a Meeting Facebook page and on all podcast platforms. To learn more about me and receive valuable information, go to tracystuckrath.com and if you'd like more information on how to feed engagement, nourishment, inclusion, and bolster your bottom line, then visit eating@ameeting.com.